My shoulders suck. I try to hit front, medial and rear delts, but they're just not growing so much. There's nothing more aesthetic than big shoulders ... I really want some. What am I doing wrong? Here is my shoulder workout from last night:


FRONT DELT:
4 sets seated dumbell press:
35 x 12
50 x 8
60 x 6
70 x 0 (I failed)
65 x 3
60 x 4, then 40 x 4 (superset)

3 sets seated barbell press (I take this real easy and slow to avoid injury)
95 x 4
115 x 4
95 x 4

MEDIAL DELT:
3 supersets single side cable side raises:
15 lbs, 10 lbs, 5 lbs,
and in between sets I do slow front barbell raises(raise bar to my chin in front of me) with 50 then 30 until failure

REAR DELT:
We don't have a great machine for this. U use a machine that people use for pec flys in reverse. I did 5 sets, last 2 are super sets, starting at 137 lbs, down to 100.

I try my best to concentrate on the muscle, but I don't really feel super sore today. Can someone with a good routine please share?

Thanks,
CT

You could try prioratizing the differeny heads?
Try using different exercises?

Here is a sample workout ot try.

Seated DB rear delt raises 3-4 sets, 8-12reps
Side DB laterals (unilateral) 3-4 sets, 8-12 reps
Military presses 3-4 sets 6-8 reps
Upright rowes or DB front raises 3-4 sets,8-12 reps

Of course this routine could also be tinkered with.
It takes time, so be patient. Lift heavy with strict form. Alot of people do not use good form while training shoulder, keep that in mind.

Hope that helps,

Rick

i like push press

You seem to have listed 16 sets for shoulders, I would say this is a little too much. I (though I am by no means attempting to present myself as a paradigm) do 12-14. I also think your rep range is a little low, you seem to stick to 4 a lot. Perhaps this works well for you in other muscle groups. My shoulders have best responded while keeping in the 8-10 rep range. I do drop down to 5reps on military press occasionally. My shoulders also respond well to supersets.

I think heavy benching and overhead presses, as well as heavy rowing for the posterior head should be a solid foundation for any shoulder development.

Try fewer sets with fewer reps and heavy weight. I'm not straight diesel, but here's my workout...
-military press- 2 sets, 4-6 reps (failure by 6)
-dumbbell shoulder press- 3 sets, 4-6 reps
-dumbbell lateral raises- 3 sets, 6-8 reps, strict form, but heavy. These will bring width if you do them right.
-rear delt DB raises- 1 or 2 sets if needed, 6-8 reps.

8-10 sets of shoulders a week is plenty. Remember, your shoulders get hit on back and chest days as well.

I've gotten a lot of front delt growth by using heavy incline dumbbell bench presses and great rear delt growth through heavy barbell rows on back day.

I hit my traps and delts 3-4 days per week. They will not grow otherwise. I've tried all the heavy movements, supersets, drop sets. Controlled concentrated movements with a combo of heavy compounds followed by supersets are what has worked for me.

This year my focus was on front delts so I hit them on shoulder, chest, and arm days.
Rear delts get hit on shoulder and back days
traps are hit on shoulder, back, chest, and arm days
mid delts on shoulder and either chest or arm days

I crush them on shoulder day and "touch" them on the other days. I've definitely made more gains this year than any other as I've had many unsolicited compliments on my shoulders and traps (which usually were never spoken of in prior years).

What it comes down to is genetics. You have to try different things and see how your body responds. No one can just give you black and white advice for genetically defective body parts. What works for one person is not necessarily what will work for you in some cases (this is one of those cases IMO). It's all trial and error. Give something a try for a few weeks and see how it goes. Then try something else. For me it turns out that I need it all and as long as I can recover (which I seem to do in the shoulder area) then you can keep going. I look for unexplained pains as a sign of over training and then I'll back off for a while before I go psycho again

As good as compound movements can be, I would question the efficacy of the bench press for shoulder development. With proper form (i.e. shoulder blades pulled back/chest pushed out), my understanding [from Lyle] is that the anterior delts get somewhat removed from the equation (not completely, but to a significant degree). Incline bench is, of course, a different story, but I do wonder if a properly executed flat bench effectively works the shoulder girdle to a significant degree.

Anyone well versed in exercise physiology might correct me, however.

I'm doing HST. For my workouts I do:
-DB Incline Bench
-Seated DM Military Press (which is the same as DB Shoulder Raise)
-DB Shrugs
-Lateral Pulldown or Low Cable Row
-Overhead Tricep Exstention

Don't all of those hit the shoulder/upper back area at least as secondary muscle group for each exercise?

I noticed yesterday when I was doing DB Incline Bench and Seated DB Military Press that my back, chest, upper body felt a lot more stablier.
I don't know the name of the muscle, maybe delts, in the upper back that connect to the upper arm, but when I was pushing out for DB Incline Bench, I felt more stablized and firmer there.

When I was lifting weight with Seated DB Military Press, I felt the same sturdier, soild, effect.
Don't know if that is an a temporary pump or an indication my shoulders/back are getting strongers/good workout.

If I were you I'd be asking the opinion of someone who knows training over someone with big shoulders as they are not mutualy inclusive. I have neither so.

I agree that the shoulder involvement is greatly reduced if one is pulling back the shoulders and keeping the shoulder girdle tight. This is indeed one of the benefits and purposes of powerlifting style bench form. That being said, the shoulders are still experiencing some overload. I was also grouping bench variations together.

At any rate, I should have been clearer.

Unless you're on a heavy cycle, that's way too much work. The shoulders are easily overtrained. For the typical trainee, I wouldnt exceed 8-12 (maybe 14) work sets per week.

I'd do something like:

4 sets OHP
2-3 sets laterals
2-3 sets bent laterals

Keep adding weight to your lifts and your shoulders will grow.

I was wondering when this would be posted.

dude sorry to disappoint u but the truce is not everybody can get a big shoulder, i've been working on shoulders for 3 yrs and still they r not as big as i expect them to be. it's just the different genes in different pple, u could however expand it abit but probably not much since it depends on structure of ur bones

I'm gonna be the odd man out since no one has mentioned them:

Add in some Power Cleans and Power Snatches!!

(Maybe some overhead squats if you can ever do them -- muwhahah)

I only opened the thread to see if he was getting slammed for the way he posed the question, I was suprised I was the first to mention it.

Me too.

Looking at what ur doing its no wonder that your shoulders aren't growing.
ur doing to much volume...WAY TO MUCH VOLUME!!!

if ur goal is size then ur rep range is to low.
the lower the reps the more your muscles grow in terms of strength...
once you get over 5 reps the muscles switch gears and start focusing on the growth of size
once your over 15 they start workin more on endurance
(they are gross generalizations over what actually happens....so don't flame me for it...)
If size is your goal you and ur a fan of the increase weight, lower rep logic then you'd be better off doing like
12, 10, 8, 6 for a 4 set routine.
or 10, 8, 6 for a 3 set.
You must increase the weight each drop set though for this to work.
don't count warmups as sets, just do it and get into your lifting.
And stop working to failure! Failure shouldn't be the goal of your workouts...you should actually try to avoid failing...

what works for me:
I am not predispositioned to good muscle genetics, my whole family has poorly developed muscles.
One day at about the age of 24 I decided I wanted them to be the cornerstone of my physique (I'd been training on and off since I was about 14 so I had a decent form already but lagging shoulders)
Within 2 years my shoulders became all I wanted them to be.

For your rear/side delts make sure your doing shrugs and upright rows (I do mine with stirrups on a cable machine which are easier on ur wrists)
don't bother with any direct front delt work...they get hit aplenty and grow to fast as it is...

I did isolation before compound movements because that logic worked for me. I figured the tricep was a smaller muscle and an OH press would fail on the tricep before it would bring the shoulders to failure.
SO I'd do 2 sets upright rows, then 2 sets of lateral raise machine then a superset of db lateral raises into db or bb seated OH presses.

I went from doing DB OH presses with 40lb db's 2 years ago, to now being able to do 100's (for 3 sets of 10)
Once I got over the 70lb db range I limited db usage as just popping them up causes so much stress on joints, ligaments and tendons of your wrists, elbows and shoulders, so I'd advise going to a BB in a cage or with a spotter, or using a machine.

do the shrugs on back day, and add 2 more sets of upright rows on back day in also.

2 years ago I barely had any striations in my shoulders at 8% bf, now I have them at 18% (top of my bulk) and now they are the first thing people compliment me on.

I'm not huge by any stretch of the imagination...and I've learned a little more over the years about the importance of diet and working legs (never worked them till I turned 26) and compound movements...
There is a LOT of great information on the web. Learn the underlying principles on what makes what grow, why, and how.
Bryan Haycock does a great job of explaining some atypical lifting styles on his site (HST), Arnold and Weider both have great books which clearly explain a handful of lifting techniques. Learning about the different ways to lift in terms of volume sets/reps, recovery and all that stuff is very important. And above all...google> all