I apologize for starting a new thread on resveratrol, but I think it emphasizes what I think I have found: a new use for resveratrol.

From taking resveratrol, I seem to be going through emotional side effects.

It seems to eventually evoke within me an intense focus to execute activities I set my mind on. It is as if I have obtained a small nuclear reactor in my belly, and it is fuelling me, driving me to perform activities.

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EXPLANATION

(1) DRIVE / MOTIVATION

Explaining related ideas on this subject is somewhat difficult for me, but bear with me a bit here.

For those of you who have studied psychology, you maybe familar with the idea that one's physical output is a function of psychic energy. What is "psychic energy"? It is a signal that tells your brain or your body to perform an act. It can be said that everyone has psychic energy to live. That is, our brain generates signals to breath, to eat and to perform other bodiy functions necessary to keep body alive.

Most interesting are pychic energy components that affect our social behavior. For instance, consider one's desire to obtain promotion (sublimated aggression). At any given moment, if one feels lazy or feels like relaxing, he may not perform physical acts that are necessary in order to give him that promotion. If his mental drive was strong enough, however, he would actually do something about it (work harder, etc).

So, to some extent, it is the availability of social pscyhic energy that determines social behavior / status.


(2) INCREASING PSYCHIC ENERGY

Note that the social psychic energy components are: aggression + fear (insecurity) + sex.

Sex need not be addressed here much, because ( a ) its availability as psychic energy has been addressed much in other literature / posts etc ( b ) "satisfaction" of that drive translates to successful execution of long term goals, which fundamentally depend on aggression + fear. Thus, discussion of aggression + fear should suffice.

Whether one is dealing with aggression or fear, it should be clear, upon reflecting upon the example of job promotion mentioned above, that one's social success is dependent on availability of these basic psychic energies. Simply put, one will do more to change social circumstance, if the basic drive (fear + aggression) is stronger and more presistent.

For social success, what one would ideally like to do, is to increase this energy. It is unfortunate, however, that one cannot WILL oneself to have more of this energy. Because, to will that drive into existence, one has to have the energy to do so in the first place. Another way would be to try to select activities that will iinstiil the sense of aggression and fear (sports?). To tell you the truth, I think these are rather ineffective.

Note*: I believe fear + aggression are derived from the same psychic energy. It is just that one's brain converts it into one or the other, upon generation of this energy.


(3) DRUGS

Ultimately, of course, one has to resort to drugs. Note that great number of drugs that apparently increases physical output is NOT good for this purpose. Take ECA stack, for instance. All it does is make one jittery and increase caloric expenditure. It does not provide the psychic energy.

Resveratrol administration, I think accomplishes the goal of increasing the basic psychic energy: the "drive" / the "push".

(I suppose drugs that seem to affect one in this manner may include hormones. But, I have not experimented much in this regard.)

Interesting, I was not aware of this being a characteristic of Reservatol. Any idea on through what mechanism reservatol might be exerting this effect on you. Did you originally take this to extend your llife... if so, might the expectation of a longer life simply be causing you to focus more on achieving future success (like getting a promotion)?

Yes, I started on resveratrol to see how it would help me in terms of life extension.

However, I do not think it is the expectation of longer life that is motivating me.

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My pet theory is that resveratrol might actually be activating sirt1 gene, which seems to me the stress handling gene.

My guess is that sirt1's effects are much more than just life extension; it may affect other aspects of stress handling, including psychological aspects. For example, one may have better chance of survival under stress if one is mentally focused. It is possible that resveratrol, via activation of sirt1 gene, is causing one to become more focused, so as to increase its chance of survival.

Care to expand on your little experiment?

What were your experiences?

Dosage?

I am not entirely sure what you are asking, but here is my first attempt to answer your questions:

(1) The experiment was supposed to be for positive benefits of "life extension." More specifically, I was looking for fat loss.


(2) My experience physically was that my body seemed to go into "freeze mode." I was not getting stronger or more muscular. I was not becoming leaner either. The effects were more manifested psychologically. Basically, there seems to be some sort of emotional "amplification"; any incidents would cause negative and positve emotions to be stronger. The emotional swings always ended up with strong sense of focus, which would last, then fade, then re-emerge again.

(3) 120 mg / day, 60 mg per dose. (The same amount of resveratrol is present in 3 gallons of red wine). I mixed it with quercetin, which probably came to about 3 g day; 1.5 mg per dose.

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I have a cold whose symptoms are lasting longer than usual, which I wonder, is associated with resveratrol / quercetin. I don't know -- it might also be suppressing my immune system. But then again, this could be caused by quercetin. I have stopped taking them, and my cold symptoms are going away. These symptoms can be coincidental, of course, and I am not sure what is the consequence of resveratrol.

As fat loss supp, resveratrol is basically ineffective.

How long before you noticed said effects?

RoyHarper:

It took about 6 days.

Emotional swings seem to begin 3-4 hours after resveratrol + quercetin administration, on _empty_ stomach.

So what did the drug motivate you to do which you normally would not do?

I think it could drive one to do things one may not normally do, when "aggressiveness" (which invariably follow "serious mood") arrive after resveratrol administration. There is a great deal of intensity, "restlessness," focus and sense of purpose. It reminds me of the youthful angst. When I was younger, though, most of the angst had much more of sexual component.

Eating food seems to dull this effect.

HI VC, I'm curious what role(s) does the addition of quercetin play in your experiences?

I'm sure there is a specific reason that you are combing the 2 supplements. Can you subjectively note any differences between how you feel acutely after Resveratrol vs. quercetin --> compared to your comments on the combo of the 2?

I have some thoughts of my own regarding the gene activation that you mentioned...Keep us updated, this is quite interesting...

Chemically, it is supposed to prevent resveratrol from breaking down just long enough to have some effect in one's body. Quercetin makes resveratrol bioavailable.

In terms of bodily manifestations or symptoms, I am not sure what quercetin is doing to me. I suspect it could be preventing my liver from doing its normal functions -- I hope not, but I won't know for sure until I have my liver enzyme value checked out.


In retrospect, I should have tried to take them separately; for any good "experiment", one should be isolating on single variable. Furthermore, that would have provided information for your questions.

Unfortunately, I have not done so (as I have read that resveratrol by itself is not bioavailable). I let my eagerness get ahead of common sense.

I may try taking quercetin by itself after this "experiment".

any news on this

I stopped taking resveratrol for the past two days. On the second day, I started feeling "happy" and relaxed. Today, I took my usual dose, and again, the focus and restlessness seem to come back. I kind of like it.

So, at least there is placebo effect. One cannot know this for sure, unless there is more feedback on resveratrol. I am merely data point, anecdotal at best.

VC:

This is an interesting thread. I wonder though about the theory that 'psychic energy' (fear+ aggression) is that great . . .

I used to be a moody bastard. Most of it was due to fear + aggression. On one hand I had a lot of fear about many, many things. On the other hand I was pretty aggressive in my thoughts. Anger, competetiveness all of that stuff. Wanting to get ahead. Wanting to beat the living the hell out of some guy who was looking at my girl. Stuff like that . . .

In some ways it seems like fear + agression is good. I mean it is being 'natural' -- it is like being more of a natural man, and not just doing things because society dictates behavior. At the same time, I could honestly say that too much of this plain sucks. Meaning that I don't know if it really helped me financially, socially, etc. I would just lash out due to FEAR + AGGRESSION . . .

On the other hand if someone is REALLY PASSIVE in nature/personality, then this might be good, ie people who are like TOO NICE for their own good. Guys who let their girlfriends, bosses walk over them, etc. Someone who is too darn nice. Or someone who has gotten TOO COMPLACENT because everything seems okay . . .

I've found personally that having less mood swings is helping my professional and social career. Instead of being angry and fearful that others were getting ahead (which is good motivation, no doubt), or getting into a huge argument with my girlfriend, or starting a fight with some guy looking at her, I'm able to not WASTE ENERGY/TIME on things where my reptilian brain is over firing. I just focus on DOING THINGS. I get more of what I want now and am generally happier and more motivated and efficient.

So I guess it depends on the individual. But it's an interesting topic/thread/idea.

I'm curious, VC -- how has this supplementation (in your opinion) helped in REAL WORLD terms, ie are you more likely to DEMAND what you want or NOT PUT UP with crap or what?
Or even work out harder? Like what was so bad about NOT HAVING mood swings?

The fact that you have lots of drive is a good thing. It is likely, in your past, the issue was more about your lack of control. Having power is great, as long as one can control it.

If you ever watch "master-disciple" movies, you might notice that many of these movies contain scenes in which the master evaluates the to-be disciple for his potential. Upon passing the master's test, the disciple gains access to knowledge, which allows him to grow and prosper.

Tests which the master poses usually are designed to answer the following question: does the disciple have the talent or the drive to become great? But WHY pose such question in the first place? The answer: because, drive or talent is not something you can teach. It comes from within. On the other hand, control is something that can be taught.

One who is born with lots of drive/talent is very lucky. There is no greater gift from the Gods.



I believe you are asking about the manifestations of the psychic energy: Having lots of it, how does it help you?

If you have the self control, you simply use it to drive your activities, that is all. For example, say it is late at night. You are relatively tired. You have some work to do. Now, whether you actually focus on your work depends NOT only on your physical fatigue, but also on your desire (or the drive) to finish your work, in order to get ahead. It is at moments like this when your drive is crucial. You will keep looking for ways to improve your situation, despite physical obstacles. (This is what people call being "mentally tough.").

It is not about stopping people from shitting on you, or about demanding things. How you channel the drive is up to you; you don't need to use it for things like that.

I agree virtualcyber. Being one who lacks drive and motivation inherently I know that I would prefer the good and bad that comes with greater control, motivation and drive. I am able to mediate my lack of motivation through willing myself to do something, working against instinct, but it's not a foolproof method.

DOSAGE ADJUSTMENT

It seems that I _must_ decrease my resveratrol dosage.

I have been recalculating the amount involved. It looks like I have been taking close to 240 mg / day. The first thing I am going to do, is to decrease it do 80 mg ED.

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REASON:

After I had stopped my resveratrol administration, my cold symptoms were fading. But, after I restarted on resveratrol, my cold symptoms reemerged.

There are two possibilities: resveratrol is either taxing my system so that I am having allergic reaction or my immune system is compromised. I think it is the latter. At this rate, I am going to die of common cold, despite resveratrol's alleged anti-aging effects.

Another interesting physical reaction to hgh dosage resveratrol: My body temperature increases. I feel pleasantly warm.

CORRECTION:

My resveratrol dosage seems to have been at around 240 mg ed and quercetin around 2.5 g ed.

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I have reduced their dosage to: 80 mg ED, for resveratrol and 1 g ed for quercetin.

Damn VC you're hardcore. Always trying something new. To hell with drinking wine.

In terms of cancer prevention, Resveratrol (henceforth RES) is capable of working on signalling pathways at multiple stages of cell growth, so it can inhibit proliferation and if necessary induce apoptosis.

Oral RES systemic bioavailability isn't just low. If you look at studies clearly, it is practically zero. But it does have a tendency to accumulate locally in epitheleal cells along the digestive tracts which is why some studies found it favorable to colon cancer, etc. I personally don't think quercetin can do anything because the low bioavailability is a function of its very rapid metabolism.

As far as RES reaching beyond digestive tract, there's no in vivo studies to support that. Meaning, there's basically no evidence that its pro-cardiovascular. You'd have to modify the RES compound itself for it to be more bioavailable. Quercetin may actually negate RES's effects in the colon because it is itself carcinogenic there.

I think you are right on that.

On the other hand, there is some evidence which indicates it may not be necessary for resveratrol to have long 1/2 life for it to be effective.

The hope with quercetin was that quercetin will slow down the liver metabolization of resveratrol just long enough for it to reach the cells, even if for brief duration.


Again you are right. At least I have not found any studies that support the survival of RES in plasma.


What we need here is a chemistry expert.


BTW, I am not really hardcore ...

What about Transdermal?

Well I have a Bachelor's degree in Chemistry
But I'm no expert.

That is an interesting alternative. At least you do not need to take quercetin -- it stinks.

I do not remember if resveratrol by itself smells intolerably bad.

Any ideas on potency?

Resveratrol has MW=228.2 and logP=3.08, so it should be a perfect candidate for inclusion in PH Gel. It has rather poor solubility in water, but it is "soluble in alcohol" and also is "soluble in DMSO." I didn't find much info. on it giving exact solubility levels (regarding numbers in mg/ml), but it would be quite easy to test it in standard PH Gel to find what the solubility level would be, as the primary solvent utilized in PH Gel is isopropyl alcohol.

If the oral bioavailability of Resveratrol is as low as Gene's suggests above ("practically zero"), then applying it in a topical could theoretically increase the potency multiple-fold (estimate ~30-40% bioavailability with the topical).

Seems like a worthwhile experiment.

VC... try the quercetin by itself and see if you get similar results

Thanks guys, for the extra info. Let me think about my next move on this experiment, based on what you guys said.

why i say that, is that I think the effects you are having are due to the quercetin only

Very, very interesting.

VC:

Are you still taking R-ALA (Alpha lipoic acid)?

The reason I ask is I was talking to a work out buddy of mine. He said that he was taking ALA and it was giving him increased pumps at the gym. He taking it while eating food and also prior to the gym.

Well he said he's been having 'mood swings'. Sort of like when he was taking AAS. I don't know if it's due to lower blood sugar levels. But even I've noticed that he's sort of 'different' in temperment. I thought he was just having some personal issues he was working on but now I'm wondering if it's the ALA. I said to him: hey are you on the sauce? But he said no and explained that he was taking ALA.

Since I work with him, it's not just in the gym. He's acknowledged that he's a little 'off' lately. He's generally an easy going guy but the dude has been both 'pissy' and then has like gone on philosophical ideas of what he's got to do to change his life. Again that's not like him. Just wondering if there's some correlation.

I haven't taken ALA myself for a long time. I don't remember what kinda results if any so I can't say. Just wondering if besides RESERVATOL, it might be due to the ALA.

There is a good chance that quercetin is affecting my liver. I am pretty certain that my immune system is affected too.

It is not ALA, because I have not been taking it. However, this strengthens the view that quercetin could be the active agent. ALA, as you know, affects liver. Quercetin does too. Perhaps they share something in common.

Question:

To try the transdermal, I need resveratrol more pure than what BAC is selling. BAC's "res" mixed: 20 mg is real resveratrol + 180 mg of fillers.

Does anyone know of unadulterated resveratrol source?

yes

Let me try and get a 20 gram or so sample sent out tomorrow.

vc, any news?

try a quercetin only trial

No-go on that particular supplier. I have requests out, I should have word back soon.

You mean I should verify that my cold symptoms were caused by quercetin? Dunno, it is kind of unpleasant to get cold, just for verifying this. Besides, I could be doing myself permanent disservice (e.g., kill my liver).

Thanks, Matt.

no vc

I mean the effects (inc. motivation, other weird feelings) were due to the quercetin only and the resveratrol did nothing

This is what I meant:

Earlier I mentioned that I developed cold symptoms, which worsened each time I restarted on quercetin + resveratrol. So, if I were to try quercetin only and the cold symptoms were due to quercetin only, I'd likely develop more symptoms by taking quercetin. I am not sure if I want to try it.

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As per your point, there is good chance you are right. HOWEVER, there is a reason why I used quercetin with resveratrol.

From http://www.betterhumans.com/Features/Repor...ID=2004-06-28-1,