First, let me say that while using for somewhat of a "lean bulk" phenogen has been working great. Most noticeable results have been seen in the midsection, and an overall 'tight' feeling. I recall that high dose sesathin causes one to flatten out in the gym. However, even at 6 pills a day, that is only moderate dosing of sesathin. Yesterday, and about 14 days in, my strength was severely lacking . As much as I tell myself that I am no longer a powerlifter, but a bbuilder, I still get that itch to be able to lift as much as I 'look like I can' . I have a feeling that this issue could be solved with the likes of something like bodyoctane or something, not to mention a little hormonal goodies. I guess my question relates then to what in phenogen could be causing this? My guess is the sesathin. I also recall hearing others losing endurance more so than absolute strength.

I'd say it is most likely the GPA.

I wondered that myself....the only contradictery thing was thinking back to swole with GPA in it as well. However, the creatine probobly took care or "equaled" out the problem there...

Its probobly a combo of all the ingredients. Most notably reduced inflamatory cytokine production (which is stimulatory to nerves) and reduced energy status for nerves.

Personally I never saw my strengt drop by my volume sure did. I found ALA + dextrose + A-AKG right before a workout to be the best solution for me personally. I think mike now has cheap bulk of all of those so you might want to give it a try.

actually for the moment i haven't noticed a drop in stength whilst taking phenogen and sesathin, and i did up the volume on a couple of lifts, as well as reduce rest between sets

Spook, my blood pressure (systolic reading) has been high as of late. Could what you mention be causing this? I was under the impression that phenogen lowered bp, but I cannot seem to figure out what is causing this for me right now....

I would not think phenogen would alter BP and I sure did not notice it while I was testing. I test my BP regularly because its allways on the high side. Has been since I was a teenager. Damn genetics. Saliva is suposed to have blood pressure lowering qualities but the extract is not standardized for the components that do that so I would not expect it to have much of an affect. So long story short, I doubt it would be the phenogen.

spook, I too have issues in the family with high BP. What fave you found to be effective in lowering? My main issue/concern is systolic. I have heard that diuretics tend to be the best for the systolic end; however, I really do not want to take diureticws like dandelion root year round <_<