I was wondering which supplement, in your opinion, is the best in terms of overall effect?
I currently have AMP and was pleased with it a first, but I may have raised my tolerance to its active ingrediants.
I tried a free sample of something called Stimulant X and its effects were definately there, but it wasn't "jitter free" as they claimed, after working out i just felt shaky and slightly annoyed.
I do prefer Adderall and generic amphetamine salts but those are just so hard on your body and I dont have a perscription. Unfortunately, being a college student, I think I have a fairly high caffine tolerance so that is unlikely to get the job done if its the main ingrediant. What are you guys' favorties?
Full Version: Best Stimulant Supplement?
ephedrine hcl straight up
edit: just discontinue use of all stims for a couple weeks and let your tolerance go back down
edit: just discontinue use of all stims for a couple weeks and let your tolerance go back down
You might want to try some sulbutiamine (available @ bn.com), it's a great stim, w/o jitters, it gives you great mental focus and drive, w/o anxiety or crash. Physically, it's more an overall stim, I wouldn't say it's especially designed for working out, but it does help a lot, as it gives you some much confidence.
I'm taking some again after dabbling w/ modafinil, which isn't that pleasant after all and does mess up my sleep.
Try 100mg per day in the morning and if you like it go up to 200mg. Don't use it for more than 6 weeks.
I've used both the brand name and bn's generic and they are the same (expect the price obv.).
I'm taking some again after dabbling w/ modafinil, which isn't that pleasant after all and does mess up my sleep.
Try 100mg per day in the morning and if you like it go up to 200mg. Don't use it for more than 6 weeks.
I've used both the brand name and bn's generic and they are the same (expect the price obv.).
In terms of what effect, improving mental focus/concentration? Energy? Appetite suppression?
Considering they don't actually test to diagnose ADD, I can't imagine getting a prescription would be terribly hard. I wasn't a fan of Adderall XR/IR, but dexedrine/dextroamphetamine is very smooth and has excellent mental effects, with far less peripheral side effects than ephedrine or caffeine. IIRC ephedrine and d-amp both release NE about equally; with d-amp you take a smaller dose, and get some DA released as well. So considering the DA release is mostly central, I think d-amp (dosed 10mg BID) effects your body a lot less than a "normal" (25mg TID) dose of ephedrine does. Then there's caffeine. Ugh. (insert snobby French stimulant user facial expression here)
I never really liked AMP much.
The only OTC dopaminergic I know of with pronounced effects shown in studies is nicotine. Unfortunately nicotine has a horrible (30 min) half-life, so you need a patch/gel/gum/lozenge etc. (I recommend the gel) By itself, nicotine is not a carcinogen. One study found equal efficacy between transdermal nicotine and methylphenidate (ritalin) in treating ADD.
One caveat I've found is that amphetamine+caffeine=bad. Actually I think caffeine has the most obvious side effects of any normally dosed stim I've used (at least at the stupid 200mg TID dose of the EC stack). The phenethylamines all tend to be "smoother", even shitty levoamphetamine.
Speaking of which, I don't like l-amp much, but it is very effective at suppressing physical fatigue/soreness, probably the most effective stimulant in that regard I've used.
QUOTE
I do prefer Adderall and generic amphetamine salts but those are just so hard on your body and I dont have a perscription.
Considering they don't actually test to diagnose ADD, I can't imagine getting a prescription would be terribly hard. I wasn't a fan of Adderall XR/IR, but dexedrine/dextroamphetamine is very smooth and has excellent mental effects, with far less peripheral side effects than ephedrine or caffeine. IIRC ephedrine and d-amp both release NE about equally; with d-amp you take a smaller dose, and get some DA released as well. So considering the DA release is mostly central, I think d-amp (dosed 10mg BID) effects your body a lot less than a "normal" (25mg TID) dose of ephedrine does. Then there's caffeine. Ugh. (insert snobby French stimulant user facial expression here)
I never really liked AMP much.
The only OTC dopaminergic I know of with pronounced effects shown in studies is nicotine. Unfortunately nicotine has a horrible (30 min) half-life, so you need a patch/gel/gum/lozenge etc. (I recommend the gel) By itself, nicotine is not a carcinogen. One study found equal efficacy between transdermal nicotine and methylphenidate (ritalin) in treating ADD.
One caveat I've found is that amphetamine+caffeine=bad. Actually I think caffeine has the most obvious side effects of any normally dosed stim I've used (at least at the stupid 200mg TID dose of the EC stack). The phenethylamines all tend to be "smoother", even shitty levoamphetamine.
Speaking of which, I don't like l-amp much, but it is very effective at suppressing physical fatigue/soreness, probably the most effective stimulant in that regard I've used.
I need to get me some dexedrine. stupid Israel only prescribes Ritalin and Bupropion.
QUOTE(liorrh @ Feb 9 2007, 10:33 AM) [snapback]386582[/snapback]
I need to get me some dexedrine. stupid Israel only prescribes Ritalin and Bupropion.
Is that a matter of legality or usual policy? I tried Googling but I can't read Hebrew and neither can Google translate. Only thing I found was Adderall wasn't approved there, but Dexedrine might be an approved drug that just isn't prescribed much.
I don't think bupropion is terrible either, but I really am not a fan of methylphenidate due to the severe "crash" from it.
Amp is great, but as some of the others said, you may just need to nix it for about a week. When you do go back on, use it sparingly.
EC, AMP or Stimulant X, or if u want to slow down time use GT R4W, that thing is trippy, it feels like 5 minutes for every one minute, no even kidding.
QUOTE
GT R4W, that thing is trippy, it feels like 5 minutes for every one minute
What's GT R4W? AFAIK most dopaminergics make time "fly", and depressants make it slow down (such as first gen antihistamines).
QUOTE(luv2increase @ Feb 8 2007, 01:09 PM) [snapback]386383[/snapback]
ephedrine hcl straight up
edit: just discontinue use of all stims for a couple weeks and let your tolerance go back down
edit: just discontinue use of all stims for a couple weeks and let your tolerance go back down
I had forgotten my first major stim that still nothing to this day has come into comparison to; RITALIN.
good ole methylphenidate
ahhhh
Really, out of every stim u can think of, for some unknown reason, this has been the one yet to top. And, it was my first major stim used.
edit:
scientifically speaking, all around stim.. gave me better focus, concentration, mental energy, mental processing speed, fatigue absent, feel good and take grave interest in learning anything and/or doing anything
weird, i haven't done it for 6 years too LOL
QUOTE(Frangible @ Feb 9 2007, 03:47 PM) [snapback]386661[/snapback]
What's GT R4W? AFAIK most dopaminergics make time "fly", and depressants make it slow down (such as first gen antihistamines).
Get Diesel Ready 4 War, its preworkout energizer, yeah whenever i take this it seems like its been forever when its been only a short time(school, work)
AMP does it for me as long as I don't use it for too long, then it becomes somewhat ineffective.
I found I still had a few caps left. I have my powerlifting meet tomorrow, so I thought I'd do a test run today. I took 3 caps at 20 to 8AM, then had breakfast at 9AM. I didn't feel the effects until 9:15Am. They then lasted until 1PM.
This was a good test, given I won't have breakfast before weigh in, and after weigh in I'll be eating.
I found I still had a few caps left. I have my powerlifting meet tomorrow, so I thought I'd do a test run today. I took 3 caps at 20 to 8AM, then had breakfast at 9AM. I didn't feel the effects until 9:15Am. They then lasted until 1PM.
This was a good test, given I won't have breakfast before weigh in, and after weigh in I'll be eating.
Thanks for the replies guys. Researching most of them.
I guess the reason is two-fold. College, studying, tests, reading for hours and all that. And then of course the workout energy. I dont really care that much about appetite surpression, and I know I wish there were dopaminergics out there.
Currently I am still on my parents insurance plan, but as soon as I'm off that I will get some Adderall or Ritalin and use on an as needed basis.
I do agree that adderall/amp + caffine sucks. I just got annoyed for no reason and had almost "destructive energy" but didn't get anything good accomplished. Will not repeat.
I guess the reason is two-fold. College, studying, tests, reading for hours and all that. And then of course the workout energy. I dont really care that much about appetite surpression, and I know I wish there were dopaminergics out there.
Currently I am still on my parents insurance plan, but as soon as I'm off that I will get some Adderall or Ritalin and use on an as needed basis.
I do agree that adderall/amp + caffine sucks. I just got annoyed for no reason and had almost "destructive energy" but didn't get anything good accomplished. Will not repeat.
QUOTE(howlongisthenight @ Feb 9 2007, 09:51 PM) [snapback]386689[/snapback]
. I dont really care that much about appetite surpression, and I know I wish there were dopaminergics out there.
QUOTE
Eleven adult patients with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) without medication, consuming 7-40 cigarettes per day, showed statistically significant lower values for striatal dopamine transporter (DAT) measured by [99mTc]TRODAT-1 SPECT compared to 11 non-smoking drug-naive patients with ADHD, matched for sex and age, despite higher ADHD scores for the smokers. Because stimulants have been shown to reduce primarily elevated DAT density in adults with ADHD, it can be suggested that nicotine acts in a similar way on striatal DAT as do stimulants.
PMID: 12135534 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
PMID: 12135534 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
DAT= reduces DA levels
QUOTE
Nicotine has been shown to improve attentiveness in smokers and attenuate attentional deficits in Alzheimer's disease patients, schizophrenics and adults with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). The current study was conducted to determine whether nicotine administered via transdermal patches would improve attentiveness in non-smoking adults without attentional deficits. The subjects underwent the nicotine and placebo exposure in a counterbalanced double-blind manner. Measures of treatment effect included the Profile of Mood States (POMS), Conners' computerized Continuous Performance Test (CPT) of attentiveness and a computerized interval-timing task. The subjects were administered a 7 mg/day nicotine transdermal patch for 4.5 h during a morning session. Nicotine significantly increased self-perceived vigor as measured by the POMS test. On the CPT, nicotine significantly decreased the number of errors of omission without causing increases in either errors of commission or correct hit reaction time. Nicotine also significantly decreased the variance of hit reaction time and the composite measure of attentiveness. This study shows that, in addition to reducing attentional impairment, nicotine administered via transdermal patches can improve attentiveness in normal adult non-smokers.
PMID: 9860103 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
PMID: 9860103 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
QUOTE
Nicotine, like the psychostimulants methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine, acts as an indirect dopamine agonist and improves attention and arousal. Adults and adolescents with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) smoke much more frequently than normal individuals or those with other psychiatric conditions, perhaps as a form of self-medication for ADHD symptoms. Nicotine might therefore have some value as a treatment for ADHD. The present study is an acute double-blind crossover administration of nicotine and placebo with smokers (n = 6) and nonsmokers (n = 11) diagnosed with adult ADHD. The drug was delivered via a transdermal patch at a dosage of 7 mg/day for nonsmokers and 21 mg/day for smokers. Results indicate significant clinician-rated global improvement, self-rated vigor and concentration, and improved performance on chronometric measures of attention and timing accuracy. Side effects were minimal. These acute results indicate the need for a longer clinical trial and a comparison with other stimulants in adult ADHD treatment.
PMID: 8927677 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
PMID: 8927677 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
QUOTE
Several lines of evidence suggest that nicotine may be useful in treating the symptoms of Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). The current study was an acute, placebo-controlled double-blind experiment to determine whether nicotine might be useful as an alternative treatment of adults with ADHD symptomatology. Six smokers and 11 nonsmokers who were outpatient referrals for ADHD were diagnosed by DSM-IV criteria. Measures of treatment effect included the Clinical Global Impressions (CGI) scale, Hopkins' symptom check list (SCL-90-R), the Profile of Mood States (POMS), Conners' computerized Continuous Performance Test (CPT), the Stroop test, and an interval-timing task. The smokers underwent overnight deprivation from smoking and were given a 21 mg/day nicotine skin patch for 4.5 h during a morning session. The nonsmokers were given a 7 mg/day nicotine skin patch for 4.5 h during a morning session. Active and placebo patches were given in a counter-balanced order approximately 1 week apart. Nicotine caused a significant overall nicotine-induced improvement on the CGI. This effect was significant when only the nonsmokers were considered, which indicated that it was not due merely to withdrawal relief. Nicotine caused significantly increased vigor as measured by the POMS test. Nicotine caused an overall significant reduction in reaction time (RT) on the CPT, as well as, with the smokers, a significant reduction in another index of inattention, variability in reaction time over trial blocks. Nicotine improved accuracy of time estimation and lowered variability of time-estimation response curves. Because improvements occurred among nonsmokers, the nicotine effect appears not to be merely a relief of withdrawal symptoms. It is concluded that nicotine deserves further clinical trials with ADHD.
PMID: 8741955 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
PMID: 8741955 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
There are a ton of nicotine delivery systems that avoid tobacco (which is the carcinogenic shit), but as I said, due to the 30 min half-life you have to dose continually. Gum/lozenges taste bad and are annoying, patches are OK but a little itchy, I think the gel is the best bet. You can buy most this stuff anywhere (ie Walmart), without a prescription or even showing ID. Expect to pay ~$30/month or so depending on what you buy.
Of course, dexedrine owns nicotine, but you knew that.
QUOTE(Frangible @ Feb 9 2007, 12:17 PM) [snapback]386601[/snapback]
Is that a matter of legality or usual policy? I tried Googling but I can't read Hebrew and neither can Google translate. Only thing I found was Adderall wasn't approved there, but Dexedrine might be an approved drug that just isn't prescribed much.
I don't think bupropion is terrible either, but I really am not a fan of methylphenidate due to the severe "crash" from it.
I don't think bupropion is terrible either, but I really am not a fan of methylphenidate due to the severe "crash" from it.
thanks for taking the time
Its not approved yet, and gudging by the system here it wouldn't be int he next years. can I be diagnosed and prescribed as a tourist in another country?
yes, I experience this horrible crush from Ritalin.
I'm considering nicotin for a long time with two issues preventing me from using it: vasoconstriction and addiction.
QUOTE(liorrh @ Feb 10 2007, 12:17 PM) [snapback]386756[/snapback]
thanks for taking the time
Its not approved yet, and gudging by the system here it wouldn't be int he next years. can I be diagnosed and prescribed as a tourist in another country?
Its not approved yet, and gudging by the system here it wouldn't be int he next years. can I be diagnosed and prescribed as a tourist in another country?
You can be diagnosed, perhaps prescribed (depending on local laws... I would think so)... but taking the drugs back to Israel or continuing to receive them would depend on Israeli law, which I just don't know.
QUOTE
yes, I experience this horrible crush from Ritalin.
I'm considering nicotin for a long time with two issues preventing me from using it: vasoconstriction and addiction.
I'm considering nicotin for a long time with two issues preventing me from using it: vasoconstriction and addiction.
Dexedrine is a vasoconstrictor as well I'm afraid; more potent than nicotine in my experience. Nicotine isn't especially psychologically addictive in transdermal form as it lacks euphoria, but there is some physical withdrawal if you stop taking it... so you have to taper your dosage down.
any country where I can buy this without prescription? eastern europian guys?
QUOTE(liorrh @ Feb 11 2007, 08:55 AM) [snapback]386847[/snapback]
any country where I can buy this without prescription? eastern europian guys?
I am in your shoes here as well, it seems next to impossible to locate in my country.
I am getting more interesting about taking lower dose Dexedrine and smoking some cigs between my college courses. I guess it would help, especially the fact that nicotine has that anti-stress effect on me. I wonder if anyone knows the the neurotransmitters action behind nicotine + d-amp combination?
QUOTE
any country where I can buy this without prescription? eastern europian guys?
There is great risk in doing this with a drug like dexedrine... be careful. Also, I did some more Googling and I've found references to Israelis describing ADD treatments where they had been prescribed Dexedrine. It seems to me you can get it in Israel, you just need a doctor who will prescribe it?QUOTE
I am in your shoes here as well, it seems next to impossible to locate in my country.
You can definitely get dexedrine for ADD in the UK. Should you find a doctor who will prescribe it, that is.
QUOTE(Darksanity @ Feb 11 2007, 11:11 AM) [snapback]386901[/snapback]
I am getting more interesting about taking lower dose Dexedrine and smoking some cigs between my college courses. I guess it would help, especially the fact that nicotine has that anti-stress effect on me. I wonder if anyone knows the the neurotransmitters action behind nicotine + d-amp combination?
D-amp indirectly hits the nicotinic receptors (as shown in studies blockading them), and nicotine indirectly raises DA levels. However, the very short half-life of nicotine in smoked form will leave you with a stimulant crash as the effect wears off, which will hurt cognitive performance. In addition, the risk of fatality from smoking tobacco is over 1000 times greater than amphetamine use. If nothing else I would switch to a more theraputic, transdermal form of nicotine... which isn't a bad drug by itself.
do you have the link? I searched for that some months ago and asked alot of doctors
QUOTE(liorrh @ Feb 12 2007, 05:35 AM) [snapback]387054[/snapback]
do you have the link? I searched for that some months ago and asked alot of doctors
I dunno the exact URL but I found it searching for "Israel" here. There were also posts with links to resources in Hebrew which I couldn't understand.
cheers
dont forget nicotine itself is a neurotoxin
QUOTE(howlongisthenight @ Feb 12 2007, 11:26 AM) [snapback]387105[/snapback]
dont forget nicotine itself is a neurotoxin
Cite?
QUOTE(howlongisthenight @ Feb 12 2007, 10:26 AM) [snapback]387105[/snapback]
dont forget nicotine itself is a neurotoxin
Depends on the concentration.
QUOTE(Frangible @ Feb 11 2007, 03:07 PM) [snapback]386917[/snapback]
D-amp indirectly hits the nicotinic receptors (as shown in studies blockading them), and nicotine indirectly raises DA levels. However, the very short half-life of nicotine in smoked form will leave you with a stimulant crash as the effect wears off, which will hurt cognitive performance. In addition, the risk of fatality from smoking tobacco is over 1000 times greater than amphetamine use. If nothing else I would switch to a more theraputic, transdermal form of nicotine... which isn't a bad drug by itself.
Ok let's say I buy nicotine gums, would it be wise to take them on d-amphetamine? I was thinking of a synergistic effect (increase concentration, memory, and anti-stress effect from nicotine). Wich dose is good for a non-smoker?
my favorite is Stim X for now. 
Amp lasts for like an hour tops.. really only 20mins, stim x lasts for hourssss and I love the focused energy and whatnot.. makes me REALLY productive.
Amp lasts for like an hour tops.. really only 20mins, stim x lasts for hourssss and I love the focused energy and whatnot.. makes me REALLY productive.
QUOTE(Ubiyca @ Feb 20 2007, 08:55 AM) [snapback]388248[/snapback]
my favorite is Stim X for now.
Amp lasts for like an hour tops.. really only 20mins, stim x lasts for hourssss and I love the focused energy and whatnot.. makes me REALLY productive.
Amp lasts for like an hour tops.. really only 20mins, stim x lasts for hourssss and I love the focused energy and whatnot.. makes me REALLY productive.
I can only disagree, as AMP had be flying for 5+ hours on saturday.
I tried some StimX the other weekend for the first time. I liked it... nice even amount of stimulation that lasted pretty much all day. I don't think I'd ever use it on a day to day basis though - probably something I'd reserve for the weekend. The best pre-workout stim I've used thus far is still Amp, and I too find that it lasts for at least a few hours.
QUOTE(howlongisthenight @ Feb 12 2007, 10:26 AM) [snapback]387105[/snapback]
dont forget nicotine itself is a neurotoxin
A pubmed search using the terms "nicotine" and "neuroprotection" reveals many studies on nicotine's neuroprotective effects on neural cell cultures, neurons in living animals, life expectancy, and even the onset and time-course of Parkison's disease and Alzheimer's in humans. As Gahan said, it depends on the dosage.Inhaled tobacco smoke, however, qualifies as toxic.
"It is a potent neurotoxin with particular specificity to insects; therefore nicotine was widely used as an insecticide in the past" -Wikipedia
search "nicotine neurotoxin" on google 85,700 results
"nicotine neuroprotector" pulls up 360
lots of sources for this....kinda lazy though to post more
search "nicotine neurotoxin" on google 85,700 results
"nicotine neuroprotector" pulls up 360
lots of sources for this....kinda lazy though to post more
QUOTE
"It is a potent neurotoxin with particular specificity to insects; therefore nicotine was widely used as an insecticide in the past"
Umm...again, dosage dependent. Anything is a neurotoxin in a high enough dosage.QUOTE
search "nicotine neurotoxin" on google 85,700 results
"nicotine neuroprotector" pulls up 360
And how many of those refer to tobacco? You notice he used PUBMED -- which is actually relevant here, unlike google matches.
QUOTE(graatch @ Feb 21 2007, 01:34 PM) [snapback]388556[/snapback]
Umm...again, dosage dependent. Anything is a neurotoxin in a high enough dosage.
And how many of those refer to tobacco? You notice he used PUBMED -- which is actually relevant here, unlike google matches.
And how many of those refer to tobacco? You notice he used PUBMED -- which is actually relevant here, unlike google matches.
For going out on the weekend and socializing with teh ladies, Stim X is the winner for me.
QUOTE(Redsky @ Feb 20 2007, 12:00 PM) [snapback]388265[/snapback]
I can only disagree, as AMP had be flying for 5+ hours on saturday.
Noob
Though I will say the 1st time I took amp it was INCREDIBLE!
QUOTE(Ubiyca @ Mar 14 2008, 01:53 AM) [snapback]465661[/snapback]
Noob
Redsky
Group: Members
Posts: 1605
Joined: 16-September 03
From: Texas
Member No.: 1639
Ubiyca
Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 20-February 07
Member No.: 11288
Yes, he is definitely teh n00b.
Texas does a lot of offsetting to that comparison 
I got to play with Adrenalean at the Arnold Classic, and it was solid. No harsh comedown - not noticable even. Good appetite suppression and clarity, no jitters. I want more!!!
meh, you would. I want more Amp v.1 to stack with mah HEAT
I liked the Adrenalean too. I like NP's bulk ger caps but they are a little too potent for me. If the dosage was reduced about 30% or so I would really like them.
Stim X made my scalp itch like I was taking 20 mini-thins. I didnt like that stuff at allllllllllllllllllll.
I like HEAT too but its not really that stimulating. I am almost to the end of my last bottle of the original HEAT.
Stim X made my scalp itch like I was taking 20 mini-thins. I didnt like that stuff at allllllllllllllllllll.
I like HEAT too but its not really that stimulating. I am almost to the end of my last bottle of the original HEAT.
QUOTE(babyblu @ Mar 14 2008, 08:34 AM) [snapback]465779[/snapback]
Stim X made my scalp itch like I was taking 20 mini-thins. I didnt like that stuff at allllllllllllllllllll.
LMAO, ah, the good ole days of mini-thins. I look back upon them fondly (and proceed to start convulsing).
Speaking of mini thins, it's hard to beat a solid EC stack, or C + Geranamine is pretty good too.
I am liking RPM about now, but I heard it has a short honeymoon period so I am using it sparingly hoping to "keep the magic"
Venom HD is ok, need at least two caps when you get used to it, but it lasts a long time. It's better than Regular venom at least.
AMP is overrated IMHO, even with HEAT. Keep in mind this is coming from someone with lots of illicit stim playtime but I never got what all the hubbub was about...
Me thinks my receptors are fried
.
QUOTE(habit @ Mar 14 2008, 03:06 PM) [snapback]465852[/snapback]
LMAO, ah, the good ole days of mini-thins. I look back upon them fondly (and proceed to start convulsing).
Speaking of mini thins, it's hard to beat a solid EC stack, or C + Geranamine is pretty good too.
I am liking RPM about now, but I heard it has a short honeymoon period so I am using it sparingly hoping to "keep the magic"
Venom HD is ok, need at least two caps when you get used to it, but it lasts a long time. It's better than Regular venom at least.
AMP is overrated IMHO, even with HEAT. Keep in mind this is coming from someone with lots of illicit stim playtime but I never got what all the hubbub was about...
Me thinks my receptors are fried.
Speaking of mini thins, it's hard to beat a solid EC stack, or C + Geranamine is pretty good too.
I am liking RPM about now, but I heard it has a short honeymoon period so I am using it sparingly hoping to "keep the magic"
Venom HD is ok, need at least two caps when you get used to it, but it lasts a long time. It's better than Regular venom at least.
AMP is overrated IMHO, even with HEAT. Keep in mind this is coming from someone with lots of illicit stim playtime but I never got what all the hubbub was about...
Me thinks my receptors are fried
.have you tried reset AD? I think its definitely worth a shot for you.
QUOTE(Rodzilla @ Mar 14 2008, 01:05 PM) [snapback]465873[/snapback]
have you tried reset AD? I think its definitely worth a shot for you.
I'm starting my second bottle now
I notice an improvement but nothing mind blowing. Def worth the 16 bucks though......
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