DSade, Kimbo, Ozzman and any of you other intellectual juggernauts, this query is for you guys. I'm trying to wrack my brain and figure out the optimum stack(s) for recomposition. I figure that DCP is the staple product. I would probably want to add a non-hormonal anabolic (Jungle Warfare, Activate/Rebound). I was thinking that a topical would be a good call, a fancy homebrew with Y, RK and whatever else y'all think would be a good idea. I would probably also toss in a good "kitchen sink" fat burner like Scorch, Heat, etc.

So for you guys that dream in supplements, do you have some stack ideas. I'm thinking 3 different kinds of stacks would be in order. First, the carte blanche stack, all the things you would use in a stack if you were trying to get big, lean and sexy. Second, the country club stack, this stack would be the 5-6 things a month in the 200-250 dollar range that you would use to get peeled. Last one, broke ass college student stack, the 2-3 things you would absolutely recommend for fat loss, lean mass gain and damage control.

The gauntlet has been laid down, rise!

FYI I believe Jungle warfare and Rebound are in fact hormonal supplements. A topical should work well if in fact you are at a reasonable bf%, scorch or heat are both solid choices as far as thermogenics are concerned. Instead of blowing a lot of money on a bunch of different products why not go with something like RPN's Havoc from all the reviews I've read across the boards it is receiving very good reviews in terms of gains and lack of side effects.
I would go with DCP, Havoc, Spookderm and scorch, oh just a note if your under 21 ditch the havoc and swap in some X factor.

Well, I wouldn't consider myself an intellectual juggernaut, but here are some suggestions based off of what I've used so far (this all assumes a recomp is the goal):

Basics (broke ass college student)
RPN DCP to keep fat gain at bay and to help burn off some fat
SyntheSIZE to help preserve/put on muscle
Green tea extract
Avant Labs Sesathin

Nice additions
Avant Labs HEAT to help with appetite and release some additional fat - stacks well with just about anything
DS's NHA stack (Rebound Reloaded + Activate)
USPLabs Anabolic Pump to help utilize carbs efficiently (offered as a stack with RPN DCP)
Bulk leucine

Bells and whistles
USPLabs PowerFULL
Scivation Xtend or XF Ice (instead of leucine above)
Lipoderm-RK or Targex
Nicoderm patches
MAN Scorch

I relegated the MAN Scorch to the "bells and whistles" category because I think these types of supps are more important when cutting than when recomping.

Please, I'm not in the same category of D Sade and Kimbo, just read a lot...

Lets add something to this discussion.... Start with Gut Health for a probiotic..you want all nutrients to be absorbed...

Now for the truly broke ass college student:

No refined carbs, only vegetables and occasionally fruits, maybe a weekend "liquid refeed"...Don't forget the protein and "stack" as many vegetables as possible during the week...rinse ..repeat

Creatine/Beta-alanine would be a must for my Uber stack. Both have such incredible benefits and BA seems to be underrated.

I like ozz's suggestions; when cutting it is important to keep immune function stimulated, and Gut Health and a solid multi-vitamin with a high veggie/fruit intake would work fantastic. Refeeding with a macro ratio favoring protein would work great too. I'd also supplement at least 1000-2000 IU of vit-D during the winter depending on where you live.

Havoc and Phenogen.

BN has cheap liquid sesamin,add fish oil for synergystic effect,it also potentiates Phenogen nicely.

PCT consisting of Rebound Reloaded and SyntheSIZE with 2 grams of glucosamine each dose,the latter to replicate the benefits of Leptigen Mass thereby retaining gains made on cycle.Phenogen to be dropped upon introduction of SyntheSIZE.

800mg bezafibrate during binges is IMO the best available drug/supp for acute damage control.

All the above can be had for around $175-200.

Edit: Add HEAT and Scorch PCT to help with cutting so 2 month stack of all the above would run $225 or thereabouts.Centrum Performance is my standard multi,I'm assuming the OP already takes a multi with ample B vitamins.

This is the kind of stuff I'm looking for...thnx for all of the awesome responses.

Ripped Force...i recognize that the NHA type stuff are hormonals, for recomping i think that type of supplement is essential. I will look at the Havoc.

Kimbo...all excellent suggestions, is there any reason you picked the Synthesize instead of something like Havoc or NHA?

Ozzman...the gut health is going in my next supplement order, I've been waiting for a quality probiotic. Keeping the diet tight is a given, I'm using a style of carb cycling I got from Joel Marion.

Fitnecise...i agree on all accounts, hadn't thought of the Vit-D supplementation, i live in Michigan, no sun and -20 wind chills for the last month, i presume the Vit-D would be an alternative to sunless tanning?

Colin...why the phenogen instead of the DCP? The PCT idea looks good, I will give that some thought. Beza is difficult for me to get as I don't have a domestic source for it and the one time i tried ordering from overseas the Beza and Fenofibrate got seized by customs.

SyntheSIZE has creatine in it, along with cell volumizers and ingredients to increase protein synthesis. For a recomp I would choose something like that over the NHA stack, because it seems more useful in a general sense, but of course if you can afford both you should go with both.

I didn't mention Havoc because you said you wanted something non-hormonal, but by all accounts I've read thus far it seems to be a decent product.

Regardless of the rap on CLA i would include 4-6 grams a day. Personally i can eat about 700-1000 more calories per day without weight gain ( fat ), and can actually hold a lower bodyfat level (8% as opposed to 10%). With a price like now foods (180 for 16 bucks) it is totally worth adding to the fish oils and Sesamin. I used CLA for 6 months straight, and once i ran out i gained about 4lbs of fat out of no where. I was impressed and depressed all at the same time lol. I was actually tracking all my calories at that point as well so there wasnt any binging or anything out of the ordinary. I also was very active in the gym, and in sports at that point.

Heat Stack is by far the best Thermo i have ever used. 2nd would be Hot Rox at full dose, and 3rd probably EC combo. Again that is thermogenics as opposed to stimulants. EC and AMP are number 1 in my book for stims.

Also Zero Impact Bars by VPX are great for a good MRP and LEAN Body RTD is the best of its kind for a snack/prot drink. I also still like to use carbs post workout. I am ecto/meso as well so i can handle 100-200 grams of carbs a day on a cut with this load out.

I would definitely add Acetly-L-Carnitine 1g 3x day to my list of absolute basics, as well as some form of ALA for PWO/pre bedtime insulin management 300-600mg 2x day

I have been having wonderful results with cAMPHIBOLIC, and at $15/bottle on Nutraplanet, its hard to say no to this. Nice GH boost, cortisol control, and thyroid output.

Solid Multi, Fish Oil, and some sort of binge control (sesa, fibrates, whatever ya got) would round out my absolute requisites.

BCAAs fall in the country club range, as they are a nice adjunct, though not completely necessary. More important for a straight cut, IMO. I follow suit with the others in recommending the NHA stack or Havoc as a nice extra (though I have not tried Havoc).

I'd save the stims for the end of the run since the increased cortisol can be a real bugger to deal with, and it can sabotage gains and keep some fat around the midsection. When needed, a little Yohimbine is nice in a stim for dealing with some tough fat spots. Stim + Lean Xtreme is nice for controlling stimulant induced cortisol rise.

So far I like most responses here....with the exception of Leucine/BCAAs. I am definitely starting to consider them staples for during workout.

Might want to add NAC as a standalone in the basic stack

Ahhhh man, I am about to get sucked into another damn board - Colby, I am going kill you for directing my attention to the freakin' Agmatine thread!


Anyway, a couple of quick-hits to add to the discussion:

1) BCAAs to me are more going to be based on actual macronutrient breakdown to be included in any fat-loss stack of sort.

2) I too am a fan of CLA, like someone above. I would direct you to the following link for many of my fatty acid recommendations:
http://forum.anabolicx.com/index.php?showtopic=1317 ( A round table discussion between myself and Dr.D on Various Fatty Acids based on initial questions. My recommendations come in at post #3 ). I still have yet to talk about things like TTA apparently, but CLA and such is there.

[This reminds me to go back to that bb.com thread to offer some comments to that fish oil thread you asked me a question in Colby...I have to search for it now though, but you see - this board whoring has me forgetting where everything is now....grrrrr.]



D_

SyntheSIZE has NAC in it, but yeah, if one weren't using that then NAC would be a good addition.

Oh yeah - I don't like protein bars nor many RTDs on the market, especially for fat loss and muscle maintenance.


D_

That's what I meant.

Please refresh me since I can't seem to find the answer doing a quick search for "fish oil dosage"....recommended daily fish oil (EPA/DHA) intake for cutting?

1.5g - 6g ED. I think Par recommends dosing on the higher side for endos.

"Fish Oil" as a term doesn't mean as much as the EPA/DHA concentration of said capsules (I have listed 3rd-party tested approved high concentration tabs - 500mg combined on bb.com), but the recommendations I offer clients based on actual studies are as follows:

Adequate Efficacious Dosing (Volume of Distribution):

<170 pounds: 2 grams combined EPA + DHA
170-200 pounds: 3 grams combined EPA + DHA
> 200 pounds: 4 grams combined EPA + DHA

* dinoiii's note: while one could expect the potential added bonus of more when body weights are higher than 230 pounds or so, higher tallies have never been suggested in supplemental form, so I am not sure additional benefit (at least from a well-researched aspect) would be of more benefit.



D_

Would you recommend higher (or lower) doses based on body fat % as well?

Dinoiii's continued research recommendations:


Well, my answer takes into consideration 2-fold rationale:

(1) Body Comp: Volume of Distribution takes into consideration lipophilic compounds - these of which are NOT "exactly" that, so adding BF% would likely not change PPAR stimulating abilities, etc...

(2) General Health: The dosing not only accounts for body comp and actual performace (for my complete rationale again see the Round Table discussion link I placed above), but also the generalized health factor - namely how to modulate w-3:w-6 ratios appropriately to bode you well, whether it be heart health, neuroprotection, et al.


-------------------

Age-based EPA/DHA conc. - simply placed here for completion's sake:

One thing I do NOT discuss is

The young child option of DHA > EPA consumption (almost 2:1)

For many on this board - 20-65 years or so EPA trumps DHA (starts shifting and continues until about a peak at 40 yrs where the conc. could actually extend to about 4:1, then readily comes down to about 2:1 by age 55...before steadying out) and ...

Then in old age, the ratio tends to shift back in favor of DHA (again almost 2:1 by about 75 years old.




Hope this sheds light on the complete picture. Research in this area changes on a virtual daily basis and this is likely the most complete picture I could give you with a straight face.


D_

What's the big benefit here? I always have some around for liver protection whilst drinking, but what else is it good for?

It's been known to do more bad than good depending on how you take it around drinking. I can't recall dose timings, but I can probably find them if you aren't already aware.

NAC, is potentially toxic after drinking, not before. However NAC, from what I have read works best when taken with Vit C. There is a decent writeup here:

http://www.relentlessimprovement.com/catal...ysteine-nac.htm

You take it before with vitamin C and, if you want to be really good, milk thistle.

That said, I can only suspect the use of NAC was for liver protection with something like HAVOC.

Yea, I couldn't remember the before/afters but that seems more reasonable to me for some reason.

Ozzman, did you suggest the NAC for some other reason, or merely for liver protection as Redsky suggests?