If diet/routine everything is fine, are supplements for cutting really necessary ?

Spending about $200 a month on cutting supplements, thermo genics, yohimbine ect..
does it really equal the price ??

For example this stack
-sesamin
-man scorch http://bodybuilding.com/store/man/scorch.html thryoid regulator
-LipoDerm-Ultra http://bodybuilding.com/store/al/lipoultra.html

This stuff is around $150 for a month supply, is it worth the price ??

If diet/routine is perfect and fat loss is slowing down, supplementation wise, is there anything that you personal recommend and had success with ?

I would say that with the exception of extremely innovative products, such as Sesamin or AMP, only bulk products such as those you would buy from Nutraplanet or Bulknutrition are worth it.

I was under the impression sesamin was just for prevention of fat gain during a bulk ? I know I posted it as a recommended sup for cutting but now that I think about it, am I wrong ??

Are you referring to this AMP ? http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ergo/amp.html

Sesathin is definitely effective while cutting.

Sesathin, fish oil, SyntheSIZE, any bulk creatine

Solaray Forskohlii Root Extract, 60 Capsules 9
AVANT019 Avant Labs SesaThin Softgels, 120 Softgels
OMEGA015 Omega Sports Burn3D, 270 Capsules

Just ordered this
Has TTA, Green tea, sesathin, and forskohli

Anything else I am missing, what about hot-rox ??
Im think about hotrox

By the sounds of it (I could be wrong) you're new to supps. Why not take them one at a time so you know, if you get a good or bad result, which supplement is to get the credit or blame. You're kind of adding too many at one shot and you've gone from one extreme (planning for diet to be spot on to get you by) to the other (many cutting supps at once). Start with the sesamin and run that for several weeks then see if you need to add to it.

Ya man I was thinken the same thing to myself, dam thats alot of stuff.

Ill do that, I am new to cutting supps,

But then again, can grean tea, sesathin, be catgorized as supps as they are found in food also ?

thanks

Keep in mind that you'd have to drink a lot of green tea and you'd have to eat a ton of sesame seeds in order to reap the benefits of either of these from normal food. In fact, you'd have to eat so many sesame seeds that it wouldn't be worth it.

Gotchya

Appreciate the advice.

On a side note I bought Lipoderm, Its a topically applied caffeine/yohimbine supplement. heard some good things about this

i say diet and actual exercise are 80%. That 20% can add up to a lot over a year though. Also i think people forget foundational supps. A good multi, antioxidants, and things like fiber and protien. The specialty supps should be left to the end of the list. If you want to cut, might as well spare as much muscle as possible, IMO. If you want to bulk might as well do it as lean as possible. All depends mentally how you can cope with being fat for a little while or smaller than you'd like for a few extra weeks. its better than surgery or steroids, just my humble opinion. Also to those few who are genetically gifted, may there wallets be fatter, but i know i need atleast a few supps to get me through a cut and bulk hehe.

I would 100% say that they are unnecessary. There are some good supps out there that provide some benefit. But, the question was "are they necessary?" No. They aren't.

BTW, I'm a supplement junky. I've got more bottles than a pharmacy. Some have helped. Most have been a complete waste of money.

As far as effective supps (from personal experience) for cutting...

green tea extract
caffeine

Both VERY cheap. Both effective, especially considering cost/benefit ratio.

I agree. Most are unnecessary, and I too have lots of pills that I have most likely wasted money on. I have no one to blame but myself. The supplement industry plays off of the desire for effortless gain, and fundamentally of enhancement to an unlimited degree. This is the case, I think, both with the bodybuilding and nootropic industry. Who would not be attracted by the idea of "being smarter, stronger, faster"? Are we the "secret club" which has finally stumbled upon the solution that others are completely oblivious to? I think not. Are we enchanted and hypnotized by the prospect that drugs and supplements can push us to that proverbial "final frontier" of the body and mind? I think so.

Yeah, my big mental hangup is when I come across something new and think, "THAT's what I've been missing. I take THAT and I'm gonna blow up!" hahaha Okay, not so dramatic, but that train of thought, nonetheless.

As others have said, they really aren't necessary. If they were, they wouldn't be called supplements, they'd be called essentials

But if you are going to include supps, I have to agree with FMF. Get your basics down. In my mind these are:

Multivitamin
Fish oil

Additionally, you can add in:

Protein powder
Creatine
Caffeine if you need a workout boost or appetite suppression

Beyond those, just experiment. Add in one thing at a time and see how it works for you, but give it a while first so you can assess.

So the three things that have actual clinical evidence for being true ergogenics you would put in the optional category?

CoQ10 is necessary for me if I want to live to be 70.

High BP?

Had high systole ~150 mmHg. Diastole always ~70 mmHg.

CoQ10 fixes it for some reason. Now ~115/70.

This is fairly common. CQ10 deficiency seems to be part of the etiology of primary hypertension.

30mg/day is all it takes to fix me. I use Now Foods brand CoQ10. (ubiquinone, not ubiquinol.)

I would consider that niacin may become an essential for brain protection in aging, B6 probably isn't because most people do quite well out of the diet, and I've seen enough case reports to suggest that it may be moderately harmful within common supplement range to wonder if its worth the risk.

Folic acid joins the list. Vitamin K would seem to be especially for risk groups for osteoporosis and lots of people dont get enough on account on modern diets and food processing..

Magnesium - very common deficiency

Metabolic antioxidants - seem to be genuinely valuable i.e. co-q-10 and R-ALA

Zinc for some people, though it can accumulate in some people

Melatonin - many people may have damaged pineal glands or dysruption they can't avoid.

Chromium - for some people

Iodine - for some areas

For some people, the other B vits, Biotin, Pantothenic acid, riboflavin and thiamin, B12 all essential but there will be wide variations in the dietary supply.

Selenium - for some areas

Carnosine - seems to work for autism better than anything else, a dietary substance, usually ingested with heme iron - not everyone needs and can be harmed by.

Iron - women and children

Vitamin D3 - elderly, in-door workers, black people, winter. Diet no longer really supplies.

Lithium - for some people with specific concerns

DHEA - conditions can leave surpressed and it definitely can have beneficial effects

Milk Thystle - for liver conditions

Lutein, lycopene and alpha carotene and other antioxidants - for eyes, prostate and cardiovascular (probably) and other systems

Yes, good post. It is very refreshing to see a critical empirical look at supplements which are often over-hyped, usually by overly-enthusiastic/easy to convince consumers or, more often, the proprietor(s) themselves. Not that supplements and treatments which border the definition of "drug" aren't useful, but their utility depends almost entirely on the particular conditions of the receiving organism (i.e. the indvidual's human body).

(Warning, ranting will ensue below)
It is easy to get whipped up into a kind of group-think in which assumptions are not being questioned. If you've read the board for 3+ years (especially the Neuroscience/"Chemically Correct" section) I think you would notice, as I certainly do, a decline in skeptical, inquisitive discussion. I may be antiquarian, but I remember a time when someone would make a claim, and five minutes later others immediately call for evidence, and bring into critical discussion anything that was presented. Today it seems like posting an advertisement is enough to convince people, and maybe a few references that could be easily checked, but often aren't. It is the old adage, "if you aren't interested, don't read it." That's the definition of spam, it’s in a place that it shouldn't be, and where it shouldn't be represented. I'm sure a few people have received useful spam e-mails, but that doesn't make the concept of "spamming" any more legitimate. And I don't mean to disrespect any companies or anyone that markets/sells products, especially in an area where more research is needed and an increased degree of scientific attraction brought. But the presence and intimate involvement of the latter, I believe in scientific discussions, is more hindrance than help. This community has become so popular that I barely recognize it, but that is the reality. So as a gadfly, I urge a return to rigorous debate and analysis. This thread is a good start. I think that I've "articulated" what I've wanted to say for a while, which has in the past perhaps manifested itself in inappropriate ways. End rant.

Define supplement?


Food could be a supplement- For example a sick person with kidney problems would "supplement" there daily diet with craneberries or craneberry juice.

Regular vitiamans and minerals could be a supplement-

Then you got 2 types of supplements: First are those that are proven to work and have been a long time staple (whey protien, carb powders, creatine,) Next are those that are fancy and very expensive and are not cost effective. Those $$$$ might work and might work great but they work the best on your wallet.