After reading various posts about test levels, body comp, etc., I came up with these 3 rather benign things. The question is how much improvement can you expect from these 3 things. I'm already getting my diet/workout in order for spring, but I was wondering about the addition of these 3.

1.More sleep(I've been averaging 3-5 hrs. a night, more on weekends)
2.Adding HCL betaine to your diet
3.ZMA(amazing that I take a million other supps but not this).

ps, if you read this, would you kindly also read my post on the anabolic forum about "One" clearing the system. Thanks, over 30 views, but no comments.

Hello

We've got a thread recently in which I dug up a fair bit on the diurnal rhythms of testosterone.

I was fairly astonished by what I found.

Test peaks in the evening and itys peak relates to REM periods and thereby peak brain activity. Test circulating from the testes is able to influence the brain. The odd nighttime peaks are dependent on good sleep. I suggest that test in the blood peaks along side brain (whilst asleep) activity in order that increased brain circulation might take more test into the brain or tie something physiological to something neuro-endocrinological.

Anyway, poor sleep dents these increases.

So sleeping earlier might be the trick. The evening timing suggests that we should be asleep quite soon after dark and thereby able to integrate testosterone spikes with sleep architecture.

That is my guess.

So remember the old addage - the hour before midnight.....

Could be a lot of truth in it. Try hitting the sack several times everyweek before 11.

ZMA?

Only problem I have is that, being so sensitive to insomnia and stimulants, maybe the aspartic acid and B6 it contains seems to give me bad sleep.

But you may benefit greatly, only way of finding out is to give it a whirl.

One other issue is betaine.

Nice in theory, but we don't know what acute or chronic loading of methyl groups does. The only data to date suggests a serious risk of abnormal genetic methylation with pronounced behavioral effects in animals, through loading with methionine, the effect being by its methyl groups.

Thanks ATB. I read a thread somewhere here about Charles Poliquin recommending the HCL by eating a high protein meal such as steak, eat half and add HCL, then eat the other half of your steak. Stop when you get a warm feeling in your stomach, and never build up to over 1400mg. When you reach the level it takes to get the feeling, you start to reduce the amount by 200mg. This of course takes a few days to reach your proper levels.

I should have added #4 to the above.

#4. Lose the 15 lbs. I gained this past year(and maybe add 5 more for a 20lb loss).

Going up from 3-5 hours of sleep to a proper amount will do an enormous amount IMO, not only from the physiological perspective, but also from the behavioral.

More sleep, hands down.

I saw a major difference in my weight loss effort when I went from just 7 hours to 8, and if I can get 9 hours without waking up from hunger, I feel fantastic.

Thanks everyone. I've posted before about my total Test levels being 235 ng/ml while my free Test was 60.6. I would love to get my total test up as "naturally" as I can. I have this (irrational ?) fear about going on Androgel. It's my understanding that you don't cycle Androgel, like I used to cycle steroids(a long time ago) and PH's(more recently). My fear is that I go on Androgel, paid for by my wife's insurance(family coverage), my own Test production shuts down after awhile, we lose the insurance, and I can't afford the Androgel anymore-I have no idea what it costs. This may be paronoidal, but that's my fear. The natural methods would just stimulate my own production, and the costs are almost nil. I realize that the amount of Test increase would be no where near what it is with Androgel, but my goals are not that high at this point. Basically I want the visceral fat to go down, I want to lessen the health risks of low Test, and I really don't need more muscle mass, but I would like to retain what I have.

Taking ZMA-simple
Taking HCL-simple
Losing BF-harder, but do-able
More sleep, actually the hardest-I start a project on the computer and before I know it, it's 2-3 o'clock in the morning, and I have to get up at 6:15 to take my son to school. I will obviously have to change this.

Isn't there a study that was done that showed a significant difference between 6 and 8 hours of sleep a night? I wish I could remember where I saw it.

What can I take so I fall asleep earlier. I've been a late night owl since high school-almost 40 yrs. of usually getting no more than 5 hrs. a night, except for weekends. Would melatonin do it. Is tryptophan available? What would you guys recommend. It has to be compatible with being on blood thinners.

Trashing your circadian rhythm....blue light from the computer is especially bad...is a major contributor to your hormonal derangement...high cortisol, low T

Getting more sleep may not be a panacea but I doubt you are going to be able to correct the problem without 6-8hrs on a consistent basis.

Metabolism. 2006 Oct;55(10 Suppl 2):S20-3.
Sleep deprivation as a neurobiologic and physiologic stressor: Allostasis and allostatic load.

Sleep has important homeostatic functions, and sleep deprivation is a stressor that has consequences for the brain, as well as many body systems. Whether sleep deprivation is due to anxiety, depression, or a hectic lifestyle, there are consequences of chronic sleep deprivation that impair brain functions and contribute to allostatic load throughout the body. Allostatic load refers to the cumulative wear and tear on body systems caused by too much stress and/or inefficient management of the systems that promote adaptation through allostasis. Chronic sleep deprivation in young healthy volunteers has been reported to increase appetite and energy expenditure, increase levels of proinflammatory cytokines, decrease parasympathetic and increase sympathetic tone, increase blood pressure, increase evening cortisol levels, as well as elevate insulin and blood glucose. Repeated stress in animal models causes brain regions involved in memory and emotions, such as hippocampus, amygdala, and prefrontal cortex, to undergo structural remodeling with the result that memory is impaired and anxiety and aggression are increased. Structural and functional magnetic resonance imaging studies in depression and Cushing's disease, as well as anxiety disorders, provide evidence that the human brain may be similarly affected. Moreover, brain regions such as the hippocampus are sensitive to glucose and insulin, and both type 1 and type 2 diabetes mellitus are associated with cognitive impairment and (for type 2 diabetes mellitus) increased risk for Alzheimer's disease. Animal models of chronic sleep deprivation indicate that memory is impaired along with depletion of glycogen stores and increases in oxidative stress and free radical production. Taken together, these changes in brain and body are further evidence that sleep deprivation is a chronic stressor and that the resulting allostatic load can contribute to cognitive problems, which can, in turn, further exacerbate pathways that lead to disease.

Benson, this is very interesting. Trouble, way back when, was telling me about cytokines, inflamation, etc. while dealing with an asthma problem. Just last week, my pulmonary specialist said that my asthma was due to the fact that my IGE levels were over 300!. It turns out that I'm not allergic to anything in particular, just high IGE. He mentioned an injection of Zolair, but now I'm wondering if this could be corrected by limiting my late night computer use. The asthma really has gone up along with my increased lack of sleep/increased late night computer use. The asthma has slowly gone away without any medication, but I've been afraid it may reoccur as mysteriously as it first appeared. Maybe this could help, what do you think?

ps, the pulmonary doc, also talked about cytokines, inflamation, mast cells etc.-but it was all "Greek" to me .

I think you are applying a chronic stress to yourself by cheating your sleep...your body is reacting accordingly by activating your fight or flight reflex...a good thing for coping with acute stress and a really bad thing to engage in the long term...the allostatic load the article is talking about.

I suspect you might be pleasantly surprised by the effects of a couple of weeks of 7+ hrs of sleep a night.

-you may well see reductions in asthma.

My theory, not yet proven, is this;

It is known that auto-immune diseases like asthma are a result of a lack of T Reg cells.

It is also known that excess cortisol kills Mast cells.

That ought to prevent inflammation, but thats not what excess stress actually does.

The plausible - you might say obvious - effect of sleep deprivation through cortisol/NE/dopamine, is loss of T Reg cells throgh prolonged stress.

I do not know this, but I assume that the brain directly regulates, as well as endocrinologically, the maturation and survival of these very cells, and that sleep dep screws these master regulatory systems. Plus, there could be other direct effects of damaged bio-rhythms.

I vote for sleep.

The last 2 nights I went to bed at 11:00p.m. instead of my usual 2:00a.m. I then wake up between 3:00 and 4:00a.m. before I fall back to sleep. I guess I need to reset my biological clock. Is this where a melatonin supp. could help? Thanks.

Well, it could do, though you have already achieved the main benefit of ealier bed time. At 11, I would take about 2-300mcg of melatonin.

You can take a bit of food with it to slow release a bit. Valerian is another option.