I am interested in epistane's ability to facilitate loss of fat with alpha receptors, "estrogenic fat", which is not pleasant to lose. ALways looking for an easier way out.

First of all, does epistane have anti-estrogenic effect, like its parent hormone? Second, if so, does anyone have a link?

I have read logs at AM about gyno reduction/removal, and, to me, it just sounds like pure b.s. Pure hype to sell epistane. It just doesn't make much sense to me.

I'm leaning towards no.

I went into Havoc on a severe deficit,roughly 1500kcals per day.My pubertal gyno appeared the same but now it seems to have gotten signifigantly more pronounced.I dropped the dieting and went on a hypocaloric fun fest and have been on such for around the past 2 weeks,this is when I noticed gyno getting worse.So either it is just gained water/fat from the surplus or my gynno issimply becoming more prominent from the havoc.I have been using trasdermal formestane,applied 1-2 times per day as a preventitive measure so I thought that would be enough to ward off gyno.Hair loss has also been looking a good deal more noticeable as of late.

At the very least,IME,I can confim it has no anti-estrogenic properties.

Several people have reported anti-gyno effects while using Havoc/Epistane. I'd recommend doing a Google search on Epistane.

Colin, I appreciate the post.

Neither Google nor pubmed has turned up anything -- that is why I asked the question in the first place. There is much more on the parent hormone, however.

Also, from what I understand "several people" you are referring to is just one person at AM. He is also IBE representative.

There was a link to another forum with several testing logs, and IIRC at least a few of the testers noticed anti-gyno effecs. I'll see if I can find it for you.

Colin, aren't you also on test?

Yeah, this will skew results.

Yes,125mg test e weekly.

With transdermal formestane applied 1-2 x daily,I would think that any anti- e properties that Havoc may have wouldn't be hindered to a great degree,given the formestane usage and realtively low (in comparison to cycle-esque dosing) HRT dosing protocol of test.

That is too many interacting stuff, to sort out what is working and what is not.

My guess is that you probably should not have introduced ATD. Nasty stuff.

He's on everything.

To my knowledge, estrogen influences where you body will preferentially store fat, but it also as a whole greatly increases fat oxidation. In studies on men with exogenous estrogen, fat oxidation increased dramatically both at rest and during exercise. In women, their metabolism is most active when estrogen is at its highest during the menstrual cycle, and their metabolism is at the lowest when estrogen is lowest. From the in vitro/rat data, estrogen even causes apoptosis of adipose cells.

I could see how an anti-E could block a female fat distribution pattern for new fat stored, instead storing it probably in the gut/abdomen, but I can't see how blocking E would do anything but inhibit your ability to burn off fat that's already there. I know for a fact some of the mental benefits from AAS are due to testosterone being aromatized in the brain and sensitizing dopamine D2 receptors (which DHT cannot do as it cannot be aromatized), it wouldn't surprise me if some of the beneficial effects on body composition may also be due to aromatized estrogen's enhancement of fat oxidation. (and there are also side effects that go along with that. heh.)

Colin, regarding your gyno, is it hard tissue / enlarged nipple, or just fat? (pseudogynecomastia) I think anti-Es can only do so much if actual abnormal milk duct etc tissue is there, and that may require surgery, but there's a little literature suggesting some E blockers can do it.

Topical DHT

could u elaborate a bit as far as dosage/strength of applied solution?

I'm not Benson but...


From Steroid.com:

I had to re-read this, to appreciate it.

As one becomes leaner, testosterone level is bound to drop, and estrogen level will drop as well. My hunch is that as estrogen drops, overall fat oxidation decreases. However, more of the fat burned comes from "estrogenic fat," because they have more alpha receptors.

Thanks for posting this.