This looks pretty sweet but the price seems pretty damn high($30-40 seems fair IMO) and you have to apply this to your entire body from neck to ankles.

If the price was shaved down signifiganmtly and tthe application site wasn't all consuming,I'd be game.

I like the inclusion of RK,cinnamon fpr their fat loss bennies (also to negate smelling like a most topicals I'd guess) and especially kameperfoal for its cumulative effect T3,along with the metabolite 7-keto beta-DHEA...AFAIK neither of these are present in any oral 7-keto/OH supp.

http://primordialperformance.com/dermaTherm_intro.cfm


Bezafibrate and its 11-a inhibition (tip of the hat to the Spookmiester for this find) along with something containing the actives above seems like it would thoroughly trump ALL things 7-0H,keto/beta,including PA's new oral....by FAR.


As of right now with what I also take in...the direct effect on cortisol isn't all that important to me as I take AdderalXR and upwards of 500mg caffiene thropughout the day so my cortisol levels are beyond repair via any supp/drug.I am chiefly concerned with the peripheral effect on T3 levels.
However,I am in the process of ordering some theophylline to replace all caffiene and theo does not club the CNS remotely as caffiene does.Just throwing this out there for those inclined to successfully use a cortisol lowering stack but still intent on using stimulants without a drop in efficacy from the former.

I suppose one could knock off Primordial's supp with their own empty transdermal carrier,if nutraplanet could source the goods.There must be a way to get around having to apply such a mix to virtually your entire body.I use other topicals (Lipo on my chest and formestane on my arms as well) so even if I was willing to slather myself twice a day with some new gunk I couldn't apply all 3 at the same time and I don't have time during the work day to clean my skin and apply more topicals.

Opinions?



On second thought,maybe I shoulda posted this in the NP forum...

65 views and not a single response?

Well,such is indicitive of the fact that I must stop posting when I am both sleep deprived and inebriated.

However,the underlying principle,however scrambled and Rainmain-esque it reads,is IMO of merit and worthy of discussion as I am sure there are MANY,including myself,who use stims,yet would like to lower cortisol levels via supplements.Traditionally,using 7-keto or the like with even a few hundfred mg's of caffiene per day would be aligned with putting a band aid on a gun shot wound but with the recent "discovery" of theophylline,it seems that one can get a hold of both lower cortisol and remain tweaked up without loss in efficacy of the former.Furthermore,this line of being "tweaked up" via theophylline would NOT leave one feeling cracked out such as caffiene will do.

Hell,maybe I shpould just m,ove this to the NP forum so D Sade can look into sourcing this stuff ffor a trasndermal application whilst bypassing habing to slather one's entire body with a topical.

Hell,I'd be willing to paycloser to Primordial's price tag,accouting for the transdermal carrier,if homebrewing the supp didn't requite neck to ankles application.

I'm surprised at the lack of interest in this topic,given the MULTIPLE overwhelmingly positive applications this (along with twice daily dosing of beza in place of something like PA's $60 supps,meh,yielding the SAME efect on cortisol)has towards body composition.

Eat that one,PA

Seriously,please...ket's get some damn discussion going b/c this seems pretty damn novel to me and not much has come out of supplelement land in the way of "novel/remotely groundbreaking shit" in a LONG ASS time.

Well, non-response to your post can be because we don't know WTF that product does.

Each of the ingredients in the product has been discussed here, but in terms what the combination does, who knows how well it works. In that regard, product feedback is most helpful.

I suppose one thing we can do is to check the AMOUNT of each ingredient in that product.

-------------

As for cortisol reduction through 7-keto DHEA, I am not even sure if that is desirable.

One problem is that raising/lowering cortisol is like a doubled edged blade. You want to raise cortisol in certain instances (e.g., part of exercise cascade) and you want to decrease it in others. Like many other things in our body, cortisol's effect is context dependent. It is a bad idea to just simply reduce it all times, or raise it at all times.

I guess an important consideration is why cortisol is linked with stimulants; I suspect Frangible is probably the expert here.

I agreee,and while Franglible is much more well versed than I WRT stimulant usage and how the fuckers actually effect the body,I'll humbly offer a simple explanation til the Franginator disperses his wisdom:

AFAIK and can see,quiite simply cortisol gets jacked through the roof from stims due to the hgarsh nature of their activity which acts chiefly on the CNS i..egetting tweaked up.

The whole premise I am woking on with a multi angle cortisol treatment via one fairly all emcompassing cortisol lowering supp i.e.a lotta shit rolled into one transdermal carrier and applied twice daily,is that one could use this supplement and STILL use WISELY CHOSEN stimulants,cough cough...theophyline),without altogether trumping the positive effect of the former.

In my pasticular case,I would think thrice daily dosing of theo along with a lowered AdderallXR dosage in the morning (15mg) would be cash money.Add in bezafibrate for fun lovin' PPAR action and its corticol lowering effect via 11a (can't recall the rest of the spelling ATM so 11a will have to suffice for the time being) and damn.

Serios;ly,there is MUCH to be had here and as far as I can see,mwithout sounding like a pompous tool,this looks almost revoloutionary.At least in my case,and for others like myself who abuse stims like they're Skittles.

cortisol blocking or inhibited release?
you wish?

are you in cycle?



you assume things quickly

............cortisol levels are beyond repair via any supp/drug........................

That is the logical question to ask.

Here is what I want to know: why does high cortisol production during exercise or after exercise doesn't have enough influence over a person to make the person fat? Why does sleep deprivation tend to make one more fat?

Stimulants increase output of E/NE/D by the adrenal glands, which also produce cortisol, so that likely has something to do with it.

Thats probably because of the increase fuel demands of exercise while sleep deprivation doesn't require increase fuel demands like exercise. I remember reading about this in Par's article for absolved.