Hey dudes. Pretty simple - I'd like to see examples of people who have eaten low/no-carb consistently (so that means no carb-ups) and have succeeded in any strength- or bodybuilding-type activities. I've never encountered anyone yet, really. Maybe one or two, but I don't know much about them.

I like paleo shit and the idea of very-low-carb diets being great for everything, and all the reasoning is good - but there's a big problem in that apparently no one at all has succeeded with it.
With endurance shit its another issue - and I suspect people could do well on no-carb diets with that.

I posted on another forum:


Which is something important to remember.

So, I'm specifically asking for anecdotal evidence of any kind about people gaining muscle/strength well on a constantly-low-carb diet. Basically lets say just trace carbs. To some people 150g carbs per day is "low carb".

Anonymous proponents of the method talk about adaptation periods of up to 6 months...

Thanks dudes

--Joe

I have been doing a Paleo-type diet lately while I have been dropping weight for my next fight. My strength numbers have been steady and somewhat increased in some lifts. One of the main things to remember is that a refeed is necessary, especially if you are in an intense training mode. I have been overdieting lately and have gotten some tendinitis, but nothing extreme. Good sources for refeeds are sweet potatoes and rice.

I know you mentioned NO carb-ups, but I did CKD for about 21 weeks.. My carb-ups usually last only about 6-8 hrs/week.

Got great results and strength. I definitely loved it much better than a "normal" diet.

how much carbs were you taking in during that time?

I have a "dieting by metabolic type" log in the log section (which I stopped updating). It details a short period on a very low carb diet, which I have continued to the present day. Strength and mass gains were very good, and loosing fat is very easy. Low carb diets and IF work very nicely together, as there are no hunger or blood sugar issues. (Actually, hunger is NEVER an issue when eating a high fat diet.) When I need to cut or recomp I use 100g whey during the day, drink whey/supercarb shake before workout, whey/maltoshake afterwards, then consume mass quantities!

However, I now believe between 60-90 grams of carbs + ~25 g PWO carbs is optimal, as this amount of carbs keeps me out of ketosis. Keto diet and maintence cals or with cal deficit eat up more muscle tissue than diets at the edge of ketosis. Check out lowcarbmuscle.com, the moderator there has plenty of info to this effect. My carbs come from green vegetables or supercarb and 25 grams malto after the workout.

In short, it worked for me, although perhaps more slowly than a 40/40/20 CHO/P/F diet. However, I feel much healthier (check the blood pressure figures in my log) and I have more energy with the high fat diet.

EDIT: My first week or so on low carb was horrible. I believe I am still adapting to high fat. PLenty of ALCAR seems to help the process along.

usually 300-400 on average

Apileptics

I run in 'carb controlled' manner almost all the time. I rarely get more than 100-150g of CHO/day and I make pretty consistent gains.

Since moving from the "Cheat to Lose" style of eating (which worked very well to drop fat btw) into a "Paleo" style where I get more than 100 but less than 150g carbs/day, I feel fantastic. Since my fat intake is high (140g+) I have few cravings and generally feel better throughout the day. Saturday I throw the book out and eat what I want.

I do note that since I increased calories on a daily basis moving from the CTL style of eating to Paleo, from ~2000 cals/day to ~2600cals/day (still below maintenance), the transfer to "low" carbs was likely much easier since total caloric intake was higher.

Joe, to any male who weighs over 130 lbs that is low carb. Understand that i you're a 180lb bber and you're eating the protein you NEED and not MORE (hypothetical 1g/1lb) you only have 720 cals coming from protein. That means you need to determine where the rest of it is coming from. If your only taking in a low amount of fat (35-50 - I'll use 43gs) that's 387 cals from fat. If your a meso and wanting to bulk you need somewhere around 3000 cals for a pretty moderate bulk - not trying to gain too much fat. Being smart about it. You have 2000 cals that need to come from somewhere. So USUSALLY these come from carbs since it IS a bulk. OR strength phase or whatever. If your just going for strength maybe knock that 3000 down to 26-2,700 cals. Either way these cals need to come from somewhere.

Now if your able to run at 150 CHO or less (let's say 150g - 600 cals) and you want to strength bulk with 2700 cals - plan to up your protein slightly (1.5g/pound = 1,080) but fats are greatly raised to compensate for the lack of cals. Roughly you'll need 111g of fat throughout the day. This is where nutrient timing gets to be extremely important.

Most guys when they hear this think they're on a keto diet and need to eat only fibrous carbs and all day with some post workout carbs. I wouldn't suggest this at all. It's upside down. Your not on a keto diet. It's low carb. You HAVE to control fats and no over indulge in SAturated fats. You NEED omega's and poly and mono unsaturated fats. For a normal diet I may say differently but for this (despite recent studies suggesting sat. fats are the same) I'd rather be safe than sorry. BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY - you NEED PRE workout carbs and DURING workout carbs. I'd say it's pretty safe to acknowledge that post workout carbs are a little silly if your on this kind of CHO restricted diet.



My question to you is - why do you think you need to go low CHO?

I've become a big fan of high fat; insulin stays on the even keel and I don't crave carbs. That's where the remainder of my calories come from.

http://www.irongarmx.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=726

Ate basically a meat only diet for about a year, pretty strong dude. And evidently is very lean.

this is not true - read up on ASP.

It's certainly not spiking like carbs do, how could it? I'm also not falling asleep after an apple in the early afternoon like I used to notice; even if ingested with protein and fat I would still get the sugar sleepies.

"Even Keel" != non-existent.

I'm there with you Sky....

I'm convinced more every day that some people just do better on a low carb diet. I think carbs have their place, but high carb/low fat is definitely not for everyone.

I cannot stress enough that carbs make me fat in a way that protein/fat does not. I am fully convinced that Taubes is right and obesity and many of the diseases of modern life are the result of consuming a diet with a high percentage of calories coming from simple carbohydrates with high GI.

I agree 100%. And to add to the original question, today makes my 6th week of straight low-carbing. I'm progressing in the weight room and the mirror and I'm feeling even better than ever. No refeeds, no carbs post-workout, nothing except a cheat meal on the 4th week mark.

This coming from a guy that lived by the "I need my carbs", not because of cravings or anything but because how demanding my workouts are.

Any chance that the sources of these carbs could be the culprit? Have you tried (for example) keeping rice and other hypoallergenic carbs and doing away with wheat/oats and seeing if you can get the best of both worlds?

I tried to do that myself and actually, through the use of the cheat to lose diet, could identify that the Higher Glycemic carb days made me feel like shit. The No carb and Low GI days allowed me to feel best. It was the gluten/grains.