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Lost Metal
I had been having a very hard time dealing with the cold this year.
I couldn't get my body to heat up, I had been very tired and lazy
feeling after work.
Also I had been having bouts of hypoglycemia, but without hunger?
As if I needed food, but the thought of eating disgusted me.

I asked my friend who is a male nurse, what could be my problem?

I told him my diet, daily routine, etc...

He told me flat out he thought my caffeine consumption was too high
but I didn't believe him, so he told me to go without caffeine for 2 weeks
to test his theory out.

Basically I would drink a 16oz diet Rockstar before work, then drink 2-3
diet cokes at work, then drink a couple more diet cokes after work.

Anyway, I went off caffeine cold turkey.

The first 3 days sucked, I was lazy/tired/headachey feeling.

But ever since then I have truly felt fantastic!

I am actually sweating again while not exerting any effort, just like I use to
when I was a teen.
My body is warm, I actually have a normal craving for food, my natural
energy is returning.
I'm noticeing my muscles feel way more full, tight and manly.

I just feel great all around. It could be placebo but what the fuck who cares I
physically feel like a million bucks. I'm done with caffeine.
geigertube
Yeah, at that kind of consumption level it's fucking up your sleep and is not healthy.
zuper1
QUOTE(Lost Metal @ Dec 17 2007, 10:12 PM) [snapback]443066[/snapback]
I had been having a very hard time dealing with the cold this year.
I couldn't get my body to heat up, I had been very tired and lazy
feeling after work.
Also I had been having bouts of hypoglycemia, but without hunger?
As if I needed food, but the thought of eating disgusted me.

I asked my friend who is a male nurse, what could be my problem?

I told him my diet, daily routine, etc...

He told me flat out he thought my caffeine consumption was too high
but I didn't believe him, so he told me to go without caffeine for 2 weeks
to test his theory out.

Basically I would drink a 16oz diet Rockstar before work, then drink 2-3
diet cokes at work, then drink a couple more diet cokes after work.

Anyway, I went off caffeine cold turkey.

The first 3 days sucked, I was lazy/tired/headachey feeling.

But ever since then I have truly felt fantastic!

I am actually sweating again while not exerting any effort, just like I use to
when I was a teen.
My body is warm, I actually have a normal craving for food, my natural
energy is returning.
I'm noticeing my muscles feel way more full, tight and manly.

I just feel great all around. It could be placebo but what the fuck who cares I
physically feel like a million bucks. I'm done with caffeine.

Have you replaced it with something else,to keep you going,wake you up etc.?
Lost Metal
QUOTE(zuper1 @ Dec 17 2007, 12:28 PM) [snapback]443073[/snapback]
Have you replaced it with something else,to keep you going,wake you up etc.?


No I haven't, I'm starting to realize that caffeine was the reason I needed caffeine.

It was an addiction. A false sense of energy, with a big crash and negative health effects to boot.

I know it sounds weird but I don't think I ever had energy problems,
until I started abusing caffeine/stimulants.

Now that I am not using any caffeine/stimulants whatsoever, I am not having energy problems.

Go figure?
GhostfaceKillah
QUOTE(Lost Metal @ Dec 17 2007, 03:54 PM) [snapback]443079[/snapback]
I know it sounds weird but I don't think I ever had energy problems,
until I started abusing caffeine/stimulants.

This sounds a hell of a lot like me. I've really been meaning to curtail my stimulant abuse, but it seems like something is always getting in the way - upcoming high volume day of lifting, big project, late movie, etc.
Frangible
I think you did well to find and identify the cause of significant issues for you. Alas, personally my experience is quite the opposite, even after going through withdrawal.
Lost Metal
Wow things just got a little more interesting.

I'm on my second week without caffeine.

Yesterday I was overcome with the urge to to take a nap after work.

I ended up sleeping from 5pm to 5am.

Woke up extremely refreshed, got ready for work
and have been feeling absolutely kick-ass all day.

I have even become a much better conversationalist without caffeine.

Girls dig me!!!

Not only that but my sweat glands appear to be working super-overtime?

I am sweating and feeling very warm all over my body.

My fingers/feet/genetalia all seem to be much, much warmer without caffeine too.
Kimbo
QUOTE(Lost Metal @ Dec 18 2007, 02:53 PM) [snapback]443339[/snapback]
I have even become a much better conversationalist without caffeine.

Girls dig me!!!

I've noticed this to be the case. If I take in too much caffeine I feel like an antisocial retard when I'm not on it. If I cut it out for a few days my normal manner of being is a lot more sociable and witty.
geigertube
QUOTE(Frangible @ Dec 17 2007, 02:58 PM) [snapback]443117[/snapback]
I think you did well to find and identify the cause of significant issues for you. Alas, personally my experience is quite the opposite, even after going through withdrawal.



I have a hunch it probably was, but after you went through the withdrawal, (how long was it until you were considered back to baseline? A month? Two?) was your diet and exercise being taken care of properly? When Im off caffeine and other stims, I have to cut back on drinking, can't smoke, have make sure I get 1/2 hr + of cardio daily, and cut out simple carbohydrates and large meals. All those things will sap my energy. (Why is having a natural healthy feeling such a giant pain in the ass? I didnt sign up to be a Spartan.)
Frangible
QUOTE(geigertube @ Dec 18 2007, 01:08 PM) [snapback]443342[/snapback]
I have a hunch it probably was, but after you went through the withdrawal, (how long was it until you were considered back to baseline? A month? Two?) was your diet and exercise being taken care of properly? When Im off caffeine and other stims, I have to cut back on drinking, can't smoke, have make sure I get 1/2 hr + of cardio daily, and cut out simple carbohydrates and large meals. All those things will sap my energy.


I apologize in advance for going offtopic here and making some giant personal emo blog post... BUT GEIGER MADE ME DO IT! /projection

For caffeine, I've gone very long periods of time without use, over a year recently I think, though I've "started using" again intermittently in the last two weeks or so. It's actually a pretty impressive effect initially, but the good effects fade too quickly and all I get is anxiety and sleep disturbances thereafter, so it's not really worth it.

Prior to that, and earlier in my life before I even knew what "amphetamine" or "ephedrine" were, I had the same types of issues; caffeine gave me a slight amount of wakefulness and energy but didn't do anything beyond that really. In the end, perhaps excessive caffeine consumption, especially late in the day, contributed to my problems. Though, I tended to sleep a lot and very solidly.

Anyway, off stims entirely, I'm very much zombie-like; my prefrontal cortex just doesn't work too well so dietary adherence is certainly an issue. In terms of exercise, I get fatigued almost immediately far before any physical limits of endurance are hit, not to mention the lack of goal-directed behavior to perform said exercise in the first place. Carb cravings were always an issue, but even on a ketogenic diet I mostly got more tired. I'm not diabetic or anything, and actually have a pretty low-carb diet now. I did notice that with carb cravings / simple carbs, they would typically come as mental fog / exhaustion came in, and partially relieve it... there are a lot of theories/studies about this being a form of self-medication in dopamine dysfunctions. Alcohol/nicotine were never problems for me, but if I had actually tried smoking I'm sure I'd have loved it. Drinking just made me catatonic very quickly, and even now my tolerance isn't that high.

Prior to that even, as a very young child, I ate quite well and was very active, but had some autistic-like thing involving very poor coordination and an inability to emulate other people's movement. Apparently I also taught myself to read, so there were some odd strengths and weaknesses in my brain from the start. Nowadays, my hand-eye coordination is certainly awesome and my general coordination, while probably not quite normal, is close and very much improved from where it was. I can emulate people's movement better but in my Aikido classes I was still slower, so I put in extra effort and practice. I picked up the METT/SETT emotion recognition training/test software and my first results were average and improved somewhat thereafter, so at least my mirror neurons are functioning to some degree now.

Yeah, caffeine is probably redundant now for me. Amphetamine I have mixed feelings about, it lets me function to a much greater degree but it is harder for me to laugh and smile and I feel cold all the time, save when the temp is 85 degrees or I'm working out (or for about an hour after a workout, the pump!). And sometimes I focus far too well on it, on things I shouldn't be. But there is no mental fog, and I can exercise without succumbing to fatigue so quickly. A lower dose sorta makes me zombie-like, and a higher dose just makes me way too overfocused. I've gone off it periodically, for about two months here recently, and while it was nice feeling warmer and relaxed, the subtle ways that the loss of executive control creeps in is just insidious and destructive towards everything in your life. I thought since I was recovering from injuries, less amphetamine = less stress / muscle tension / more dilated blood vessels = faster healing. But it wasn't, and I physically deteriorated. Not just because of the obvious factors, but at a deeper level, the unconscious posture, muscle tone, coordination, movement etc suffer to the point it is more destructive than the drug's side effects.

I wish I had a better answer but I've exhausted all the medically obvious and at the moment what works is partially treating some symptoms; I still hold myself to a goal of "natural clean living" and act accordingly but it seems like an unattainable ideal. So, what I concentrate on now ... well, first is recovery from current injuries, but beyond that, doing more things that give natural stimulation and reduce the amphetamine dosage I need (though this is difficult with my injuries limiting my activity level), and doing things that mitigate the side effects of the drug such as meditation and being a nazi about a regular cooldown period before sleep.

I remember shortly before first getting my knee injuries that the regular jogging outdoors let me go down to a dose of 10mg/day, and good socialization is also very stimulating to me. But without those things, and natural stimulation, the only product of reducing my dose to that wouldn't be pretty. And the irony is if I wasn't taking a higher dose than 10mg/day I never would've gotten to the point where I could reduce my dose in the first place.

Maybe that isn't a universal truth for everyone, and maybe most people would do better if they dropped their stimulants. But not always. In the end, I'm always going to run into my own personal experience first.

QUOTE
(Why is having a natural healthy feeling such a giant pain in the ass? I didnt sign up to be a Spartan.)


This isn't Puritanland, THIS... IS... SPARTA!!
liorrh
QUOTE(Lost Metal @ Dec 18 2007, 12:53 PM) [snapback]443339[/snapback]
Girls dig me!!!


aren't you the same psoter who reported lengthening and swellnig of his member by using jelqing and cialis two times a week?
liorrh
QUOTE(Frangible @ Dec 18 2007, 02:32 PM) [snapback]443364[/snapback]
I apologize in advance for going offtopic here and making some giant personal emo blog post... BUT GEIGER MADE ME DO IT! /projection

For caffeine, I've gone very long periods of time without use, over a year recently I think, though I've "started using" again intermittently in the last two weeks or so. It's actually a pretty impressive effect initially, but the good effects fade too quickly and all I get is anxiety and sleep disturbances thereafter, so it's not really worth it.

Prior to that, and earlier in my life before I even knew what "amphetamine" or "ephedrine" were, I had the same types of issues; caffeine gave me a slight amount of wakefulness and energy but didn't do anything beyond that really. In the end, perhaps excessive caffeine consumption, especially late in the day, contributed to my problems. Though, I tended to sleep a lot and very solidly.

Anyway, off stims entirely, I'm very much zombie-like; my prefrontal cortex just doesn't work too well so dietary adherence is certainly an issue. In terms of exercise, I get fatigued almost immediately far before any physical limits of endurance are hit, not to mention the lack of goal-directed behavior to perform said exercise in the first place. Carb cravings were always an issue, but even on a ketogenic diet I mostly got more tired. I'm not diabetic or anything, and actually have a pretty low-carb diet now. I did notice that with carb cravings / simple carbs, they would typically come as mental fog / exhaustion came in, and partially relieve it... there are a lot of theories/studies about this being a form of self-medication in dopamine dysfunctions. Alcohol/nicotine were never problems for me, but if I had actually tried smoking I'm sure I'd have loved it. Drinking just made me catatonic very quickly, and even now my tolerance isn't that high.

Prior to that even, as a very young child, I ate quite well and was very active, but had some autistic-like thing involving very poor coordination and an inability to emulate other people's movement. Apparently I also taught myself to read, so there were some odd strengths and weaknesses in my brain from the start. Nowadays, my hand-eye coordination is certainly awesome and my general coordination, while probably not quite normal, is close and very much improved from where it was. I can emulate people's movement better but in my Aikido classes I was still slower, so I put in extra effort and practice. I picked up the METT/SETT emotion recognition training/test software and my first results were average and improved somewhat thereafter, so at least my mirror neurons are functioning to some degree now.

Yeah, caffeine is probably redundant now for me. Amphetamine I have mixed feelings about, it lets me function to a much greater degree but it is harder for me to laugh and smile and I feel cold all the time, save when the temp is 85 degrees or I'm working out (or for about an hour after a workout, the pump!). And sometimes I focus far too well on it, on things I shouldn't be. But there is no mental fog, and I can exercise without succumbing to fatigue so quickly. A lower dose sorta makes me zombie-like, and a higher dose just makes me way too overfocused. I've gone off it periodically, for about two months here recently, and while it was nice feeling warmer and relaxed, the subtle ways that the loss of executive control creeps in is just insidious and destructive towards everything in your life. I thought since I was recovering from injuries, less amphetamine = less stress / muscle tension / more dilated blood vessels = faster healing. But it wasn't, and I physically deteriorated. Not just because of the obvious factors, but at a deeper level, the unconscious posture, muscle tone, coordination, movement etc suffer to the point it is more destructive than the drug's side effects.

I wish I had a better answer but I've exhausted all the medically obvious and at the moment what works is partially treating some symptoms; I still hold myself to a goal of "natural clean living" and act accordingly but it seems like an unattainable ideal. So, what I concentrate on now ... well, first is recovery from current injuries, but beyond that, doing more things that give natural stimulation and reduce the amphetamine dosage I need (though this is difficult with my injuries limiting my activity level), and doing things that mitigate the side effects of the drug such as meditation and being a nazi about a regular cooldown period before sleep.

I remember shortly before first getting my knee injuries that the regular jogging outdoors let me go down to a dose of 10mg/day, and good socialization is also very stimulating to me. But without those things, and natural stimulation, the only product of reducing my dose to that wouldn't be pretty. And the irony is if I wasn't taking a higher dose than 10mg/day I never would've gotten to the point where I could reduce my dose in the first place.

Maybe that isn't a universal truth for everyone, and maybe most people would do better if they dropped their stimulants. But not always. In the end, I'm always going to run into my own personal experience first.
This isn't Puritanland, THIS... IS... SPARTA!!



hmmm I kept reading your post and thinking this is me to a T... (well without the amps - but I was hooked on other things).

BTW I too had chronic injuries resulting from lack of executiv function and being overtense.

I have found that I must do low-moderate aerobics everyday and relxation. I was about to offer this solution and than read through you saying that jogging helped. yes it does. remember also that life has winters and summers in it and try to take it easy some times, sleep and relax more at times you feel the need too.

I wonder if like me you feel motivated and able to workout on NSAIDs. (i.e. less fatigued when exercising)

BTW relationships do help.try to find people with similar goals, values and beliefs and it will help.
Lost Metal
QUOTE(liorrh @ Dec 18 2007, 01:44 PM) [snapback]443367[/snapback]
aren't you the same psoter who reported lengthening and swellnig of his member by using jelqing and cialis two times a week?


I use cialis once or twice a week.

I do jelq/edge/kegal a couple times a week too.

It works, it just takes years of practice.

This doesn't make me anymore likeable though, Lol.

Personality>Dick Size
liorrh
QUOTE(Lost Metal @ Dec 18 2007, 03:11 PM) [snapback]443381[/snapback]
I use cialis once or twice a week.

I do jelq/edge/kegal a couple times a week too.

It works, it just takes years of practice.

This doesn't make me anymore likeable though, Lol.

Personality>Dick Size

why the hell do you want a larger dick? it just gets in the way. (beyond a certain point) it doesn't allow you to have more fun in sex.

Lost Metal
QUOTE(liorrh @ Dec 18 2007, 02:18 PM) [snapback]443384[/snapback]
why the hell do you want a larger dick? it just gets in the way. (beyond a certain point) it doesn't allow you to have more fun in sex.


Much like everyone else here, I have issues with body dismorphia (or whatever its called).

If it makes you feel any better I probably don't get as much action as you do.

I'm a workaholic, and always trying to attain a better body.

It's a cruel world! Luckily this no-caffeine thing is making it easier for me.
geigertube
QUOTE(Lost Metal @ Dec 18 2007, 02:30 PM) [snapback]443390[/snapback]
Much like everyone else here, I have issues with body dismorphia (or whatever its called).

If it makes you feel any better I probably don't get as much action as you do.

I'm a workaholic, and always trying to attain a better body.

It's a cruel world! Luckily this no-caffeine thing is making it easier for me.



Have you noticed an increase in flaccid penis size? If you are more relaxed in general, this should be a result, as the muscle involved relaxes and lengthens.

(why am I asking this? I blame the phenibut/piracetam/deprenyl/tramadol combo I took an hr ago. Also, I blame the Devil.)
maxhealth
Congrats on getting off the caffeine treadmill. Now, just make sure you don't take up any bad habits in it's place. Avoid other stimulants and diet drinks are not a good idea either.
Frangible
QUOTE(liorrh @ Dec 18 2007, 02:53 PM) [snapback]443370[/snapback]
hmmm I kept reading your post and thinking this is me to a T... (well without the amps - but I was hooked on other things).

BTW I too had chronic injuries resulting from lack of executiv function and being overtense.


I think that's it... it's like, a combination of poor muscle tone, tension/inflexibility, and lack of coordinated muscle group movement.

QUOTE
I have found that I must do low-moderate aerobics everyday and relxation. I was about to offer this solution and than read through you saying that jogging helped. yes it does.


In honor of your post, I just meditated (which I usually don't do at work), and that helped quite a bit. I do swimming now (walking/biking even tend to produce knee pain now), but not necessarily daily. Maybe I should start...

QUOTE
remember also that life has winters and summers in it and try to take it easy some times, sleep and relax more at times you feel the need too.


Wise words.

QUOTE
I wonder if like me you feel motivated and able to workout on NSAIDs. (i.e. less fatigued when exercising)


Hmm, I'll give it a try, though I think amphetamine might confound the results as it takes away a lot of that fatigue.

QUOTE
BTW relationships do help.try to find people with similar goals, values and beliefs and it will help.


That's one of the reasons why I liked doing martial arts so much... and why I kept doing it even through the pain for a while.
geigertube
QUOTE(liorrh @ Dec 18 2007, 01:53 PM) [snapback]443370[/snapback]
I wonder if like me you feel motivated and able to workout on NSAIDs. (i.e. less fatigued when exercising)



liorrh, do you experience this with all NSAIDs or just certain ones?
graatch
QUOTE
Hmm, I'll give it a try, though I think amphetamine might confound the results as it takes away a lot of that fatigue.


I bet amphetamine is (acutely) antiinflammatory too, via cortisol or other things. I believe I've heard people reporting their allergies/autoimmune problems improved, or were less noticeable.
liorrh
QUOTE(Frangible @ Dec 18 2007, 04:04 PM) [snapback]443410[/snapback]
I think that's it... it's like, a combination of poor muscle tone, tension/inflexibility, and lack of coordinated muscle group movement.
In honor of your post, I just meditated (which I usually don't do at work), and that helped quite a bit. I do swimming now (walking/biking even tend to produce knee pain now), but not necessarily daily. Maybe I should start...

you should, even walking (fast) is very good. swimming actually creates alot of tension on the shoulder and teh crawl on the back, too. so if you have shoulder issues, be careful

QUOTE(Frangible @ Dec 18 2007, 04:04 PM) [snapback]443410[/snapback]
Hmm, I'll give it a try, though I think amphetamine might confound the results as it takes away a lot of that fatigue.

indeed it will... IDK.
QUOTE(Frangible @ Dec 18 2007, 04:04 PM) [snapback]443410[/snapback]
That's one of the reasons why I liked doing martial arts so much... and why I kept doing it even through the pain for a while.

I too return to potentially damaging social activities becaue of (such) rewards there. there must be otehr ways to find those rewards. I think this is my main issue in life now - non one that shares my motivations.
Lost Metal
QUOTE(geigertube @ Dec 18 2007, 02:46 PM) [snapback]443397[/snapback]
Have you noticed an increase in flaccid penis size? If you are more relaxed in general, this should be a result, as the muscle involved relaxes and lengthens.

(why am I asking this? I blame the phenibut/piracetam/deprenyl/tramadol combo I took an hr ago. Also, I blame the Devil.)


The long answer is ... Yes! Hehe!
Bachovas
I just like the taste of coffee....and chocolate protein powder.

For us low-carbers...it is a calorie-free drink after all...but sometimes I do crave the taste of this sweet high-protein mocha concoction. Maybe I am addicted to caffeine....and warm whey or ultra peptide???
Kimbo
QUOTE(Bachovas @ Dec 19 2007, 01:10 PM) [snapback]443587[/snapback]
I just like the taste of coffee....and chocolate protein powder.

For us low-carbers...it is a calorie-free drink after all...but sometimes I do crave the taste of this sweet high-protein mocha concoction. Maybe I am addicted to caffeine....and warm whey or ultra peptide???

one of my favorites is to brew up some coffee and then cool it down in the fridge. I use that to mix my protein powder up with instead of water. Tasty as hell. Doubly so with cocoa powder added. I've never tried it warm though.
geigertube
QUOTE(Kimbo @ Dec 19 2007, 10:50 AM) [snapback]443594[/snapback]
one of my favorites is to brew up some coffee and then cool it down in the fridge. I use that to mix my protein powder up with instead of water. Tasty as hell. Doubly so with cocoa powder added. I've never tried it warm though.



Have you tried any of the overnight cold brewing methods? That might work out well for you if you like cold coffee..
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