Another side of GPA,this just reinforces how much it sucks that Phenogen was a poor seller:(

Brain ATP Metabolism in Hypoxia Resistant Mice Fed Guanidinopropionic Acid.
D. Holtzmana, M. Browna, E. O'Gormanb, E. Allredc, T. Wallimannb

Feeding beta-guanidinopropionic acid (GPA), a competitive inhibitor of creatine transport, decreases mortality and increases brain ATP stability in hypoxic mice. To study brain ATP metabolism in GPA-fed animals, respiratory rates were measured in grey matter and white matter slices as well as cerebral hemisphere mitochondria from GPA-fed mice and rats. Creatine kinase and adenylate kinase activities were measured in rat cerebral grey matter and white matter. Respiratory rates and oxidative phosphorylation were the same in GPA-fed mice and control mice. The adenylate kinase activity increased 50% and creatine kinase showed a small decrease in grey matter. In white matter, creatine kinase increased 50% while adenylate kinase decreased. Thus, GPA produces opposite adaptive changes in adenylate kinase and creatine kinase in grey matter and in white matter. These results suggest that the creatine kinase reaction in grey matter acts to regulate cellular ADP and ATP concentrations.


Below is Spook's write up on Phenogen(the only supplement produced which contained GPA for the right reason and corresponding dosage) with relevant studies on GPA at the conclusion:

http://www.avantlabs.com/phenogen.html

I wish Phenogen would make a comeback. What would be an effective dose for GPA?

As do I but from the mouth of Par Deus (paraphrased) due to poor sales,Phenogen is out the window for good.

I have found a reputable source for GPA though(not through Google) and according to him,he'll have it up for sale (considering labeling,production details and the like) on his site in 2-4 weeks.....I'm pretty damn pleased with this inadvertent discovery

Is there any chance that you could post/PM a link? I've been looking for this stuff in bulk for some time...since my last bottle of phenogen ran out really. GPA is IMO one of the best compounds that I've ever used for recomp.

Is this a request?

Way to go Colin you confused him lol.

if he isn't I will request it.

Cool, let me put the word out and see what i can find.

100g's? I can get it 7-10 bucks for 100g. But need more interest.

Interest here.

Very interested!!

Very interested here,also.

what is the knock on GPA though....just trying to remember as to why this stuff was not wholly supported

can someone cough colin cough give me a list of pros vs cons

People were just too stupid to realize it was a good supplement,in short.

The con is that GPA depletes creatine storage as it induces fat oxidation but used for upwards of 6-8 weeks this shouldn't be that much of a hindrance.Spook talks about this in the writeup.

Phenogen Q&A
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=23228

Phenogen writeup
http://www.avantlabs.com/phenogen.html

This would stack nicely with RPN's DCP yes?

Yes.

IIRC, DCP is based on the old Phenogen formula.

on its way

Fantastic news! Any time frame or clue as to pricing?

2 weeks at most, 10.99 but i think we can do an initial sale.

Ye ask, ye recieve

are caps planned?

What's recommended dosing?Times per day?

Wow good deal. I actually requested this from NP a few days ago in hopes of creating a DCP/Phenogen hybrid product.

Last year, back when I still had a bottle of the original phenogen (with sesamin), I stacked it with low dose Melting point (few caps per day) and GTE and found that it really amplified the effects of the phenogen with none of the sides that I normally get with TTA. I had great results with this combo.

Phenogen IMO was one of the most underrated fat loss supplements that I've ever tried. Its a real shame that it was discontinued, but with the bulk GPA we'll be able to finally put it together again.

This spring I plan to run:

DCP
Low dose bulk sesamin
GTE (50% most likely)
GPA
Fish oil
Na-R-ALA

I believe that this has potential to be an excellent stim-free fat loss stack.

Keen. Quigs, that looks like a good stack, I have run the above (without the GPA) before and loved it.

Any update on the ETA of this?

Being bottled as we speak. Delivery should be early, next week.

Awesome.

Have any people got to buying this GPA now it is at CNW? So far any results?

From the writeup by Spook in the first post:

"Men or women who are already lean and want to bulk up while minimizing fat gain:

This time around use what ever bulking diet you like.

Stack Phenogen with Leptigen Mass and eat at approximately 500 calories above maintiance. If you’re going to be particularly bad about your diet on any given day stack with 120mg of Vanadium Sulfate, up to 1g of alpha lipoic acid, and full dosing of Sesathin. That dose of Vanadium is not to be used on a regular basis.

Again use for a maximum of six to eight weeks at a time. Take two to four weeks off and use creatine monohydrate and possibly a source of phosphates like IP-6."

So he is saying stack GPA phenogen with LG mass, which contains both IP-6 and creatine pyruvate as its top 2 ingredients.

I notice some companies that have put both GPA and creatine in their products but I don't fully know why.

Can anyone tell me what happens when you ingest GPA and creatine at the same time. Would it be wasting your money? Would it be recommended for recomp with a slight touch towards fat loss to stack say 1.5g of GPA per day split up into 3x500 doses with synthesize at say half a scoop with your 3 meals per day?

You read Spook's thoughts incorectly as he's saying use creatine/IP6 while off of Phenogen/GPA.

In short,the last thing you would ever want to do would be to use SyntheSIZE during the same time frame as GPA as this would be counterproductive.GPA reduces ATP levels and this is primarily how it acts as a fat loss agent,SyntheSIZE increases ATP levels.

Think of GPA as the anti-creatine,if you will.

You would want to use GPA for around a month and then use SyntheSIZE (creatine and IP6 among others) to raise ATP along with the myriad of other effects.

Yes this is what I thought of it as, the anti-creatine. "GPA works because it enters cells just like creatine but it is not a suitable substrate for creatine kinase (CK). CK is the enzyme responsible for attaching a phosphate to creatine. (TO make Phosphocreatine) Creatine then acts as a battery of sorts. It’s a store house for excess phosphate that can be donated when energy is in high demand. Thus GPA gets rid of this battery effect and makes your cell rely on nutrients like carbs, fat, and protein to produce ATP."

So what was bugging me was that Spook said to mix creatine with GPA while bulking. I quoted the article above "Men or women who are already lean and want to bulk up while minimizing fat gain: Stack Phenogen with Leptigen Mass and eat at approximately 500 calories above maintiance." Also some other companies have creatine with GPA in their formulas.

I have read that creatine is not just useful for ATP. It has direct effects on myogenesis via satellite cells or something like that. I am not sure if these effects would be lost if using GPA at the same time. Creatine also has positive effects upon cortisol.

All I was thinking is that there maybe more than simple creatine vs anti-creatine (GPA) and wondered if anyone had looked into it.

AndroGenerator contains a perfect dosage of GPA, you can get it NOW at CNW.

Again,Spook did not suggest to "mix creatine with GPA when bulking".The amount of creatine in LG Mass is trivial,in the context that I was speaking of earlier i.e.you will not be getting anywhere near 5 grams of creatine from a serving of LG Mass.The variety of creatine included is actually creatine pyruvate (not monohydrate) and this inclusion in the small amount serves to modulate leptin/nutrient partitioning.

Spook suggested Phenogen be stack with LG Mass and of course I agree with him,the science is sound and I would think readily apparent.

There are many ways that creatine is beneficial besides increased strength and the like.I summed it up as "simple creatine vs. anti-creatine (GPA)" because I didn't want to rehash the MOA of each in my own words when reading the Phenogen write up explains everything on the matter in great detail.