http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1900223

Plus it would cost OVER 100 dollars if we bought it from Nutraplanet.

Jesus fucking christ.

Now you take this home, throw it in a pot, add some broth, a potato. Baby, you've got a stew going!

Impressive usage of an AD quote given the context.

Carl Weathers, acting coach to the gods.

Think of the children.

Why no spirulina seaweed? It has good quantities of amino acids, and pretty much covers all the amino acids.

You should join forces with biotest and make the "Bodybuilding Bachelor Chow" meal replacement. Superfoods + Supercarb + Sesalean + Metabolic Drive + Synthesize = millions of yolked individuals playing WoW.

I think you mean "Batcheldor Chow".

For the last couple years, I've devoted my impressive mental capabilities almost exclusively to making clever references.

I see what you did there.

I thought burgers were the superfood?

I know it is PC to knock their stuff, and I hate to say this, but they are one of the few makers of this kind of product who got it right e.g. no grasses. New chapter is one of the others.

Scott, what's the issue with grasses? Allergies or just filler?

I realize this and have looked all over for something similar.

I just don't think I could buy their stuff.

I'm not sure grasses add anything, and there is one product that includes alfalfa which has been linked to causing problems (autoimmune?).

Of course the price is higher than any of the others because even the new chapter (best other one I know of) you can get discount at iherb.

Jarrow which is an excellent company (in addition to great come backs) makes a product in the same category, but they have apple something or other as the first ingredient, rather then berries.

heh Redsky. their power drive was one of the first products of its kind and still pretty good.

You poor, pathetic, man.

Oh no question. Of course if I can get a similar product without the hype and price increase for said price, I'm all for it.

I'm waiting for the nutraplanet greens product that's all fruit and veg.

You're fired.

I'd say the jury is definitely out on this. Total absence of marine vegetables in this supplement doesn't impress me either.

Those pictures of fruit on the biotest website sure look appealing.

Ras,

You've got me on this one, I'm not even sure what you're referring to by marine vegetables, and a quick google of marine vegetables turns up the fucu stuff people are playing with for weight loss.

Oh and if you've seen a better product of this type, I'd love to hear it.


ADDENDUM: i realized the way things are worded I'm not sure if there is more apple stuff than berry stuff like the jarrow product in it.

Chlorella, spirulina, these are marine vegetables are they not?

Yes ma'am.

OK my bad.

My view is this: I am certain of the benefits of various berries, broccoli, spinach, etc. There are a number of various super green foods with various claims. Do you really need specially processed chlorella e.g. sun chlorella, or is any old chlorella oK. What about spirilina? This is like sorting out flora or digestive enzymes not an easy task. So if there were a product which contained all the berries/veggies AND ALSO some marine veggies, I'd be happy to take it. But if I have to choose between full spectrum fruit veggie with stuff I have some confidence is helpful, and stuff with grasses and some supergreen foods and less berries/veggies, I'll take the one I have more confidence in (and add sun chlorella if I'm so inclined).

If anyone has any good reason to take/not take various forms of chlorella, spirilina, or the lake klamanth whatever, please let me know. If the issue is just chlorophyl, then eating lots of broccoli/green veggies would solve the trick.

I'm not convinced that grasses are problematic or pointless. There are benefits specific to marine vegetables, particularly brown algae, which extend beyond chlorophyll content. I'm not saying this is a crap product by any means. There's just 'stuff' I'd like to see in it if I'm going to switch from the greens product I'm currently using.

Which product are you taking now? (PM me if you'd rather not post it here).

Why do you think brown algea does something? (not saying it does not).

From what I know, chlorella/spirulina are just highly, highly nutritious foods that provide a lot of 'bang' compared to most other veggies (though whether the bang is in line with the buck - ie, whether they provide good overall value - I'm not as sure of).

I have read that chlorella is less than digestible if not 'cracked cell' though for all I know this is pure marketing.

I currently use this:

http://www.evolutionhealth.com/pure-synerg...ngredients.html

I don't think brown algae do anything. Studies have indicated that brown algae have health benefits. I can post them upon request.

Why do you have confidence in a Biotest product?

Freeze drying is the best way of preserving all the nutrients in the food though. Also, it is quite expensive to freeze dry, that's why I was expecting the price to be so bloody high. Knock it all you want, I think its an excellent sup, just a little to expensive. It's funny, most people praise DS Vigor, and this is way better, but because its from Biotest, its automatically knocked.

Another vegetable here or there would make a little difference overall. I know they hype their shit, but imo most of it is descent, although rather expensive.

1. I am saying that this looks like an intelligent approach to a kitchen sink fruit/veggie supplement. Green supps....are not included--true.

I am not saying I necessarily have confidence in this biotest product, again I need to inquire to see if their product contains more apple stuff then berries, in which case this stuff would be the equivalent or Jarrow's berry hi, and I'd rather support Jarrow. And as I said, powerdrive works well and ain';t that expensive now, so I am not going to exclude something just because it comes from biotest. I'd rather buy from nutraplanet if they come up with a good product.

2. Thanks for the info, and no offense meant on the brown algea. A quick glance shows what appears to be an impressive (though pricey) product. I have a few questions I need to check into including the alfalfa which I'll double check, and if the stuff really contains significant amounts of immune stimulating supps, you may need to take periodic breaks. No one talks about this much, but taking immune stimulating supplements forever without break might not be the wisest thing.

Agreed on both counts.

I like the concept alot. Back in 2003, I talked a bit about my interest in "superfoods" and thought it would be a cool product down the line. I probably would have even called it SuperFood

LOL.

I would rather just make a shake containing WPI + cream + spinach + cottage cheese + rasberries + cashews + splenda

I don't know why T-Mag bothers having articles or advertisements, the half naked fitness chicks get all my attention.

Different berries/veggies/different phtochemicals.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the interaction of dairy and high antioxidant foods wrt antioxidant absorption or lack thereof? I belive it's been clearly shown to reduce the absorption of antioxidants in chocolate. I wish I could share that study but I recall it being big news back when dark chocolate became the next big thing - milk chocolate is not effective and not just because of lower cocoa, but because of the milk itself.

After that, I've always been cautious about mixing dairy with foods that I want to consume for their antioxidant activity. If I do, I tend to add vinegar with the hopes that perhaps PH balance plays a role. I also wonder if casein plays a role... if indeed there's a role being played at all.

Sure, I try to mix it up, I mean all my shakes are different, but I try to put as much care into them as my other meals, I am planning a broccoli & walnut shake today.

It would be hard to convince me that some kind of food extract could be better than eating lots of real food, although I guess lot's of real food + such a supplement would be better, I can't see much real evidence that it is, I also can't see any evidence that it's not worse.

You are correct as long as you rotate things. And are braver than I with that shake, though I did try spinach in some shake with blueberries after reading about it on a tmag thread--worked out.

No clue, but I never did hear the mechanism how milk interferes with the chocolate polyphenols. If you run across it, post it. Vinegar?? WOuld not have occured to me.

The mechanism isn't known, the 'how' is unknown, but the 'what' is, at least according to one study, which I can only find part of without paying for a subscription to Nature.

Here's the full text, Jinx.

Click to view attachment

"Sorry, but you do not have permission to use this feature. If you are not logged in, you may do so using the form below if available."

OK why do I get that whenever I try to open some embedded e.g. PDf file.

This was partially based on the putative mechanism behind the apparent reduction in polyphenol absorption in black tea with milk added (casein-based catechin binding). Originally posited in Serafini 1996, it's been subsequently questioned in a number of studies. If the increased gastric pH created by the addition of milk was indeed problematic (as suggested in Serafini), I'm not sure what the best approach would be.

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produ...name=111473.pdf

That makes me happy - continued justification for mixing blueberries into yogurt

I love finding stuff like that. When McDougal showed us that cinnamon really isn't a quality GDA it crushed my world.

*Hands covering ears* LA LA LA LAHHHH LAH LA!

You want all the ORAC of Superfoods at half the price you say?

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/now-foo...s-60-vcaps.html

Buy 2 and you're still ahead.

Thanks, Now really is quite an amazing company. I ran across a few alternatives in whole foods and forgot to post them. Garden of life has a few interesting ones including fruits, veggies, and green superfoods, as well as just fruits:

http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c...d=3121&at=0

Proprietary Organic Whole Food Fruit Blend:

Strawberry*, Cherry*, Blackberry*, Plum*, Raspberry*, Blueberry*----TOTAL 2715 mg +

Organic Oat Bran Fiber* (20% beta-glucan) 2000 mg +

Organic Acerola Cherry* (25% natural vitamin C) 285 mg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
vs

VitaBerry Hiorac Fruit Blend (A proprietary blend of fruit extracts and concentrated powders containing Wild Blueberry Extract, Grape and Grape Seed Extract, Rasberry and Rasberry Seed Extract, Cranberry, Prune, Tart Cherry, Wild Bilberry Extract, And Strawberry) -----****420 mg ****
Hiactives Orange (Citrus sinensis) (Freeze-Dried Concentrated Fruit Powder) 400 mg **
Pomegranate Extract (Punica granatum) (Fruit) (Stanardized to min. 40% Ellagic Acid) 100mg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


NB: Garden of life is the "dirt flora" company (primal defense--HSO Probiotic Blend). I have no experience with it, and am skeptical if it, though I could certainly be wrong.

I forgot to post. Don't forget to compare the mg total of the fruit extracts vs biotests. I can't access Biotest from work so I have no idea the mgs totals right now.