After reading Leptin and Tbone81's threads about losing fat, Im motivated to start Lose fat like youre on Crack, and get my diet in order. Ive been drinking more than I should, and my diet and workouts havent been great (they were better last year, and Ive kind of fell off track). So, its time to strap down, leave the drinking to a minimum, and cut up.

A couple of questions about the workout-

1. Overhead Squats, are they just normal squats or do you actually hold the barbell over your head. Ive only done normal squats, so not sure if I can do these or with much weight anyways.

2. Also, I guess I can figure out db front squats, elevated full lunge and incline leg raise, although If there are any diagrams or someone can explain, that would help.

With that said, I really need some help understand the following-

*Horizontal Ball P/U
*Hip Pull thru
*Standing Cable P/D
*Lower cable external rotation and seated external rotation

*And then Im assuming pushups are just that with no weight, and same with dips and glute ham raises (are these just laying on the floor and lifting your glutes, etc)?

My stats are 5' 11" about 195 and prolly 15% bodyfat. I have a decent amount of muscle, and am just looking at leaning out and cutting. Also, I see this is a lot of leg work. My glutes (by genetics) are already bigger than I care for...by eating hypocaloric, would I see much hypertrophy and should I steer clear of this workout, or do you still feel I would benefit from it?

My temp diet plan (I need critiques) is around 2000-2100 calories, with about 180 protein, 125 carbs, and 70-80 fat. Im thinking of starting this Monday, along with this program, and doing the workout Mon, Tues, Thur and Fri, with either Hiit or steady cardio on Wed and Sat (probably do 15 min of low intensity on workout days post workout, and take Sunday off).

This is what I was thinking about for a diet, feel free to critique-

Meal 1:

1/2 bowl oatmeal
1 scoop protein
1/2 cup blueberries
3 fish oil caps

Meal 2:

4 oz of lean ground beef with salsa (93/7) or Tuna
3 fish oil caps

Meal 3:

Protein Shake- 1 scoop of protein, 1 scoop of waizy maize

Meal 4:

5 oz chicken breast
Olive oil
3 Fish oil Caps

Meal 5:

1/2 cup wild rice
5 oz chicken breast or lean pork
Salad w/olive oil

Meal 6:

Protein shake- 1 cup 1 % milk, 1 scoop protein, 1 Tbs peanut butter, 3 fish caps.

Supps: multi, creatine, fish oil, and Im taking picamilon

*Cant really do much on the thermo side as my blood pressure was elevated, although now its back down. I was thinking of trying Napalm, but not sure.

Thanks in advance for any tips/advice.

Overhead squats you hold the bar above your head,

elevated lunge, is just like any other lunge but you put you're stepping foot on top of a platform or plate

incline leg raise, the should have a long bench with a slight incline, you would hold on to the top and raise your legs.[post="look here"]http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2002/reversedeccrunch2.jpg[/post]

diet, decrease fat a bit, increase protein to around 210 grams, so you may need to lower fat a bit, I would get you're carbs in around training.

Supps, looks good, add SesaThin oil, or gel caps, from Avant Labs.

Cool, thanks. So my carbs are okay (just decrease my fat and up the protein a little)? Also, I tried sesathin liquid once, and it made my shit not be able to get hard (Ive read others had this same issue). I never had any issues before or since I stopped using it, so not crazy about it, unless there is some new stuff out that wont cause those issus.

You could try the SoftGels, but if the consistency of your stool is an issue, perhaps you should avoid it. I think you will still see very good results from this diet/training regimen alone.

I think he's talking about having scrambled eggs between the legs...i.e., a bowl of pudding without the bowl, i.e...trouble in boner-town.

For the record, try 2 capfulls per day instead of 3+. I have used that dosing many times, including right now, and if anything my libido is higher than usual...and I could hold up a liquor store with my junk. That is, if dollhouses had liquor stores...but the point remains.

As for the training, if you've never done overhead squats, I'd strongly recommend you use 2 dumbbells with a neutral grip for a while. Once you feel comfortable hitting low depths with the DB's, and your throacic cage is flexible enough, then move to the barbell. With regards to the other exercises you mentioned...I think there's an old thread about this program that covered all of those, which would save me mucho time explaining. I'll take a look for it tomorrow.

haha oh, that makes more sense

Cool, thanks Rodzilla and Marc...yeah I meant my shit wouldnt get hard when trying liquid sesathin. Im 33, and believe me, I could hold up a liquor store with my shit too (except when I tried sesathin :0).

Marc- as far as the workout goes, would Mon, Tues, Thur and Sat work...then do hiit on Wed and Fri? And could I do 15 min of low intensity cardio after the workouts? Let me know if you can find that link, as I want to be sure Im doing the exercises right. Also, for push ups, (1x10), am I just doing regular pushups (only asking because obviously I can do more than 10).

Another thing, like I said, genetically I have wider hips and glutes than I really care for (probably mainly bone structure)...I really dont want too much hypertrophy there, as I wear size 36-38 jeans now because of this. By doing this workout (and eating a deficit) will I cause much hypertrophy, or will this just sort of tighten things up?

Rod (or Marc) as far as diet goes, I know eating a p+c meal is usually recommended 60-90 min after lifting, so I guess I could switch meals 4 and 5, therefore having the carbs right after my workout vs later at night..if this would make much of a difference. Also, on days I dont workout, should I eat less carbs (maybe have a chicken salad for both meals 4 and 5)? What is the thought on that. Finally, if eating more protein and less fat is recommended, do you see on my diet where I can make that change? Thanks again in advance, much appreciated.

Try decreasing dosage like Marc mentioned, I take two softgels a day, and I got hard in bio today.


Hypertrophy is hard to come by in a caloric deficit, but even if you did manage to gain some muscle around the area, it would only look good (firm you up) you aren't going to get Ronnie Coleman's ass or anything.


Yeah switch the meals around so that you eat you're carbs after training, it does make a difference

Don't worry too much about decreasing the fat right now, I mean 70 grams is probably fine, but just go easy on the olive oil.

I don't know what Marc will think, but I would maybe start with 150g carbs on lifting days, 140 on non,

if we had your P/F/C at 220/65/150 you would end up eating 2065 calories, which is ballin' IMO, lower carbs 10g on non lifting days. Then once a week do the refeed outlined in the other thread. 3000 cal, Protein 1g x bw, or even 1g x lean body mass, the rest of you're calories should come from carbs (limited fructose) and keep fat as low as possible

Ok cool...so really then, just switch meals 4 and 5 around, and even on non-lifting days, still eat the rice in meal 4? If I only need to cut the carbs by 10 grams or so, I can just eat a little less rice I suppose. I usually use Sunday as my cheat day, and probably eat less than the rest of the week. I guess I will shoot to eat a few more p+c meals that day and get to around 3000 calories.

I plan on starting this on Monday, so Marc if you have that link to the exercises and get it to me by then, much appreciated.

Rember to refeed. There going to be very important considering how low your cals are

yes, switch 4 and 5.

For eating less carbs, I would get a food scale.

On you're carb up day, this is not a cheat day, it is a calculated refeed, 195g protein, all the rest carbs, no direct sources of fat..keep it as low as possible.

again, get a food scale, you can get that and a jump rope at wal-mart (unless you have a moral objection to wal-mart)

Personally, I would drop carbs even lower on non-WO days. Somewhere in the 50-100g range. Refeeds aren't really necessary for the first few weeks unless its more a willpower thing. JMO.

Heres my thing with that, hovering around ketosis, but not actually going in to it, is not going to be fun. I think you get more of the negatives from both non keto/keto than if you were to pick one way or the other. I'm just speculating though.

Cool, thanks guys...I think I got most of the exercises down by googling.

Marc (or anyone)- since there are diff opinions on carbs on non-working out days, what is your opinion? Ie, how much should I lower them on non-working out days?

Also, for parts C- is that just basic rotator cuff work? And the Horizontal Ball Pull/up, is it done how the advanced one is done in this video-

http://www.lycos.ca/health-&-fitness/f...al_pull-up.html

Thanks again guys..

I'd have to respectfully disagree with that just from my subjective experience doing it both ways several times. Keto sucks IMO. Hard. If you can zigzag around it and time your carbs right around workouts you can get the best of both worlds, albeit mildly. You won't have shocking strength or stamina, but it is better than drudging through a lackluster keto workout, especially if doing LFLYOC.

I will take your word for it, as I have never been in full out keto. I still believe he would see great results with higher carbs though. My thoughts were that so long as glucose is still the main fuel source, fats could be lowered, carbs could be kept moderately low.

either way, guy seems to be doing great so far, maybe save the carb lowering untill further in. These workouts are going to get progressively harder, so he may not need to.

answers in quote

Cool, I just edited my previous post while this was being answered. So you are thinking I will need to keep the carbs up (even on non workout days) for now? Im thinking of doing hiit (15-20 min) on two of the non-workout days, and on Sunday, just rest.

If you are doing real HIIT you are going to need you're carbs anyway, lower them by 10. I don't like to see people go below 130 because of the whole optimal amount of glucose for the brain (I'm sure you would be fine) I just think you would feel better, and still see great results. If you do no activity on a day, then I would lower the carbs by more, and the fat.

what is your HIIT going to be?
I'm either going to do sprints at the track of the elliptical today.

I do mine on a treadmill, as I have a 5 month old, and the only time for my workouts is on lunch. I usually warm up, bump it up to 12 (highest setting) and do 30 seconds, then follow that with 1 min jogging (usually on setting 6), etc.

I will probably just lower the carbs on Sundays then, as this is my only rest day. I guess I should hold off on the refeed for now and see, not sure as I was planning on doing it that day. I am planning on doing 15 min of low intensity cardio after the workouts as well.

**One other question- on A2 (workout A), am I just doing 10 pushups? Seems easy, thats why Im asking..

I sometimes worry that people are throwing all of their resources in at once. Maybe this week, just do the LFLYOC and HIIT, next week add in one session of low intensity cardio after the lifting for 20mins, week after that, two 20 minutes session, week after stick with it or bump it up to 30...something like that.

See how the fat loss is coming first you know?

I think you should take before/after pictures of it, if you get the time.
I now understand you have a 6 year old, and things are probably very busy.

Have you gotten a food scale yet?

oh and yeah, just 10. believe me, it will be hard, make them count.

Cool, Ill take your advice then and just do the workouts and 2 days of hiit for now, and see what happens. I was thinking of doing some pics, and if I do, Ill post them. I do have a food scale and measuring cup.

Oh, and its not a 6 year old, its a 5 month old

Wow, just did the first workout and it kicked my ass!

One thing, when doing overhead squats (I used dumbbells per Marc's advice as Ive never done them), I could only do them right with 2- 15 lbs dumbbells. I tried 20lbs at first and couldnt keep my arms straight. Im assuming you start with a pretty low weight when doing these.

see aren't you glad you didn't add in the cardio after....yet
yeah the weight is going to be pretty light, I would guess that most people only do the bar when doing overhead with a barbell,

Cool, thanks. I think Im going to run it mon, tues, thur and fri..then do hiit on wed and sat, and rest on sunday.

On workout B, its going to be challenging for me, as Ive never done hang cleans before. NOt sure if I should just do light weight, or if there is another exercise I can do in place. I will probably just try to do them with light weights.

Pull ups I got, as well as dips, cable crunches, and deads.

I think I know what the hip pull thur's are, but if someone has a video, that would help (I looked on google, but couldnt find anything). I found a thread where marc says standing cable p/d are just face pulls, so got that. Standing DB over press Im assuming is just standing db shoulder presses.

Are glute ham raises the same as back hyperextensions? If someone has a video on these or the hip pull thru's, I would appreicate it.

hang cleans, start light, 25's if you are really strong. They can be pretty stressful on the shoulders if you are not used to them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpXqVba1mFo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw-1kMHjTlI&NR=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZXTXw-qrqU
you can do these on other pieces of equipment as well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDV3U6ehwWE

they are hard. Don't tear your hamstrings...Serious, it might be best to have a partner hold you're feet on the floor, whatever it is, make sure you have something to push yourself up back off of, give yourself a bit of momentum, and try to finish out the movement by squeezing yours hams/ass

Cool, thanks, much appreciated on the vids. Im going to do this workout in about an hour and will report back. Thanks again!!

Edit: just got back...wow, hang cleans aint no fucking joke. I looked like a wimp with 25's on each side, but honestly, not sure I could do much more. Anyways, another good workout...Im wondering if I should just do light cardio tomorrow vs hiit as my legs are going to be beat up. Ill have to see how I feel in the morning.

updates? are you indeed dropping fat like you are on crack?

Just one week in, so hard to tell. I do feel more solid though and the workouts are rough. I will have to update more as time goes on.

the program works really well. i wish i could do it again this semester but my school gym is so small and if there are more than two other people in it i cant do it. good choice with a cutting program. honestly its a good athletic program as well. like really good