As a low/hardgainer I want to insure that im still gaining strength while deiting even if it is as low as 5lbs on the big three every month or two.So my question is have any of you lot got any tips to maximize strength gains while dieting please?


Supps so far are

BCCA's+Glutamine 40-80g ED
F.O
NAC
ALCAR
Creatine
Taurine
Vit-C 4-5g ED
Garlic Caps
Multi
Forskolin
TTG
Cissus
ZMA

Im loath to add more supps as I think I have more than enough already unless one was shown to really work well in pursuit of my objectives!? My reasoning behind this is I used to be a supp whore spending $400+ a month on supps in fact when I droped most of these and just started to gain weight using pretty much just a multi is when I saw great strength gains.Likewise when iv'e dieted in the past or recomped strength stagnates or drops

Modest deficit (~10%?), calorie/carb cycling, keep protein high - you've heard it all before. Layne advocates a 4 wk on, 2 wk off approach to avoid bottoming out leptin, T3, etc. I've heard 100g CHO daily to maintain thyroid output.

If you were to add one supplement - SyntheSIZE if you're staying away from hormonal stuff or hormonal stuff ... if you're not staying away from hormonal stuff. (Of course, you already have BCAA's, NAC, ZMA, and creatine on the list.)

RE the deficit: Lyle states the body does not differentiate between deficits created by cardio and food restriction; also, the total deficit should not exceed 20%.

What?

Screw Lyle's semantics.

I've gained strength acorss the board sertting PR's while on a 1500kcal diet for a month and change.The only supplement I was using,besides stimulants to help with appetite and energy,was SyntheSIZE,IIRC.

No steroids/PH's.

I trained twice per day,6 days per week (2 months and change on SyntheSIZE) and kept a log noting my w/o's and strength gain:

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.p...t=0&start=0

In short,SyntheSIZE is as best as it gets WRT strength promotion and nutrient partitioning,outside of AAS.

If you're off AAS now I'd suggest getting some SyntheSIZE and resume the creatine when you go back on.The nutrient partitioning from SyntheSIZE is just about the key WRT muscle retention whilst dieting.

I'd drop the BCAA and glutamine (when you run out) in favor of sipping on milk protien isolate,much less costly and you get 20% whey (BCAA's) and 80% casien with MPI.The casien will go a long way towards staving off LBM loss due to the slow and steady release of aminos,upwards of 7 hours after ingestion.

Huh? Why is the statement so unreasonable?

As someone who made natural gains POST CYCLE on very low calories(1200-1500) I agree with this outlook to an extent. Some of my best gains have been while in a deficit....both natural and enhanced. I have also made decent gians with no carbs...

Amazingly I seem to workout more intensely without my sleepy blood glucose effects from carbs based diets...even clean carbs dont do me well.....

Note that you can gain strength while not putting on muscle due to neurological effects. You can increase the amount of force produced by your muscles, and you can become more proficient at a particular movement.

excellent point kimbo. Training your motor nuerons and building new pathways while training your CNS for short durations of intense explosions is a huge factor is strength gains. These are things that don't need an excess of calories to be obtained. If you want to maintain/improve strength while cutting your going to need to adapt your training method.

WRT carb cycling - good idea as long as you leave SOME carbs to be had PREworkout on weight training days - IME/O.

Kimbo has an excellent point, but isn't that effect only seen in novices? Maybe calorie restriction (also, IF) is increasing BDNF, allowing for greater neurological adaptations than would normally be observed.

I've had some incredible jumps in deadlifting PR's without adding mass on an IF routine. Come to think of it, most IF logs report very consistent strength gains at the same BW.

Makes you wonder if it be as good protocol for power lifters trying to stay in a certain class.....

And point well taken kimbo...

Even neural gains do contribute to overall stress levels though. Not to say you can't make gains while dieting... but it's worth bearing in mind that your body is under some increased stress, that's all.

I'd be very careful with sleep, and as others have pointed out, keep protein high and perhaps keep the deficit 'reasonable' - ie don't shoot for extreme deficits and fast loss if you also want to see strength gains. But that's just how I'd approach it.

At a certain point you have to increase muscle fiber cross-section in order to continue making gains in strength, but you can get pretty far with inter/intramuscular coordination too. There's also other things to consider, like increased connective tissue strength, golgi tendon organ disinhibition, etc., all of which can contribute to strength gains without muscle gains. There's even the ratio of sarcomere:sarcoplasm in the muscle to consider - if contractile tissue increases as much as sarcoplasm decreases then the muscle will be the same size, it'll just be capable of moving more weight.

As Mitosis suggested, this is something you see a lot in strength sports with weight classes (anything under superheavy that is). Many of these guys are pretty lean (about as lean as you can get without it impacting strength levels) and are more or less maxed out on muscle for their size, but they can continue to make gains in their lifts, albeit small gains. You see this a lot with elite level Oly lifters.

Was this possibly due to recomp?

Hard to say without any capiler data. Just glancing in the mirror, I look as lean now as when I took the pic in the log.

But where is this point? There are some PLers out there with HUGE lifts at 160 lb bodyweight. Granted they're not necessarily natural, but 160 lbs is 160 lbs WRT increases in muscle fiber area.

Yeah, that's my point. At some point you have to, as muscle fiber cross-section is of course a component of strength, but you may not need to for quite a while, and if you need to stay within a weight class you may not even be able to.

I just think Lyle sucks,generally speaking.

I made signifcant gains in strength while dropping 10% of my bodyfat while following Dan Moore's Max-Stim

free e-book
http://hypertrophy-research.com/maxstim/page4.html


thanks
coach hale
www.maxcondition.com

Wasn't there a study that showed deficits created by cardio (exercise) decreased Subq fat while deficit from diet was more effective at reducing VAT?