I touched on this in my blog, but this stuff has been epic WRT appetite suppression on only 1 pill a day. In fact, it suppresses appetite better for me than pseudoephedrine without the coke-dick side effects.

For what it's worth, I'm currently dieting at BWx10, low carb, using an Intermittent Fasting approach.

Good stuff indeed.

100% agree. Do you think it's the Hoodia? Not many other stims have that in it.

Or the PEA, or 5-HTP, or ... who knows with all stuff in there.

Cocamine 3.0™ (Cocoa Extract), Guarana Extract (99% Xanthines), Maximowizia Chinensis Extract, Phaseolus Vulgaris Extract, Hoodia Gordonii, R-Alpha Lipoic Acid, 5-Hydroxy L-Trytophan, Guggul Extract (Commiphora Mukul)(2.5% Guggulsterones), Thodiola Rosea Root Extract, Tyrosine Ethyl Ester, Propionyl-Carnitine Ethyl Ester, Vitaberine™ (Thiamine Trisulfide)

5-HTP never blunted my appetite in the past and I've never tried hoodia.

I personally belive the anorectic effect is the result of the thiamine trisulfide analog.

Most people get zero/mild acute effects on appetite on any of the other actives listed - so by deduction it must be the thiamine trisulfide analog.

One cap contains 300 mg of actives in their "blend" - there is not much room for a sufficient dose of each of the actives listed.

That being said it is the most potent legal stimulant I have tried.

Interesting. I'd like to know if it continues to be efficacious later on - keep us updated.

That's what I think as well, as each cap contains 200mg caffeine, so there's not much room for anything else. Gotta be the thiamine.

One more note: I've been dosing sesathin 2x/day along with using salvia. No lethargy to speak of.

Part of this, I feel, could be that once you're "adapted" to a keto diet (fully for a long period of time) that it becomes easy to slip in and our of ketosis without the brain fog. Lyle notes this as well and can't figure out why it would happen. I've noticed it as well.

I like this explanation for now (rats, I know, I know):

Diet-induced ketosis increases capillary density without altered blood flow in rat brain
Michelle A. Puchowicz, Kui Xu, Xiaoyan Sun, Andre Ivy, Doug Emancipator, and Joseph C. LaManna

Department of Anatomy, School of Medicine, Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio

Submitted 21 September 2006 ; accepted in final form 31 January 2007

It is recognized that ketone bodies, such as R-beta-hydroxybutyrate (beta-HB) and acetoacetate, are energy sources for the brain. As with glucose metabolism, monocarboxylate uptake by the brain is dependent on the function and regulation of its own transporter system. We concurrently investigated ketone body influx, blood flow, and regulation of monocarboxylate transporter (MCT-1) and glucose transporter (GLUT-1) in diet-induced ketotic (KG) rat brain. Regional blood-to-brain beta-HB influx (µmol·gâ€â€œ1·minâ€â€œ1) increased 40-fold with ketosis (4.8 ± 1.8 plasmabeta-HB; mM) in all regions compared with the nonketotic groups (standard and no-fat diets); there were no changes in regional blood flow. Immunohistochemical staining revealed that GLUT-1 density (number/mm2) in the cortex was significantly elevated (40%) in the ketotic group compared with the standard and no-fat diet groups. MCT-1 was also markedly (3-fold) upregulated in the ketotic group compared with the standard diet group. In the standard diet group, 40% of the brain capillaries stained positive for MCT-1; this amount doubled with the ketotic diet. Western blot analysis of isolated microvessels from ketotic rat brain showed an eightfold increase in GLUT-1 and a threefold increase in MCT-1 compared with the standard diet group. These data suggest that diet-induced ketosis results in increased vascular density at the blood-brain barrier without changes in blood flow. The increase in extraction fraction and capillary density with increased plasma ketone bodies indicates a significant flux of substrates available for brain energy metabolism.

Good stuff. Appetite effects worked very well for me without being in ketosis.
I am thinking it is the cocamine - purportedly a lot different to regular chocamine.

Either way - 1 pill lasts me the whole day, I love it.

damn. nice study heavy

PS my girlfriend loves this stuff; myself, i cant feel much until 2-3 caps, so it isnt very cost effective, besides willpower>any stimulant app. suppresant, if only because it doesnt become ineffective ever due to overuse. and i dont say that being high and mighty, but rather IME

I'll take any increased lipolysis and appetite suppression at 10xbw calories.

I look forward to trying this on a PSMF.

right
but then again redsky, if you've kept up with the latest BS on ALRI, at least in the past 3 months, its like 1/2 of their products are tainted with some shit; you'd have to defer to one of the gossip boards like bbing.com but, in short, jungle warfare has DMT or something in it, and their Restore product chromotagraphied @ androstenedione or some similar metabolite ( i think)

I've kept up on it, but stims are a fairly different ballgame. If it's tainted with something far stronger (and this stuff is muy mild, stim-wise) you'd feel it right quick.

Certain "off label" prescription thyroid drugs don't give you a stim effect. Take it for what it's worth.

You're not going to just leave us hanging like that, are you?

After reading the review above, I decided to give this a try. I literally have about a dozen sample packs from Nutraplanet (I send quite a bit of money their way). I took one cap at 6:30 with breakfast. I felt the caffeine hit within 20 minutes or so and pretty much thought "meh". Now an hour and a half later and I'm definitely feeling something else. I'm very stimulated and feel rather warm, thank goodness for my Under Armour undershirts, they rock. This is more stimulated than I care to be.

This feels way cleaner than the original Venom. Honestly, that crap made me feel like I had the flu. I think I used two caps of it (meaning 2 tries) and threw it away. Yeah, it worked in that I didn't want to eat, but I think that's because my body thought it was dying.

I'll report back at the end of the day.

FWIW, I'm also using Piracetam, ALCAR, and Vinpocetine.

A quick update now, about 2 hours later.

Feel pretty stimulated, but not very enjoyable. Feels kind of dirty, but I'm focused. Hands are cold and face feels hot. My visual disturbances (I see "visual snow" constantly) are much more pronounced. However, I've been out of taurine for 2 weeks because 1fast400 screwed up and without it, the snow gets worse (or should I say, with taurine the snow lessens). But, this is definitely making it worse than just without taurine.

I've not noticed any such response (the dirty stim effect). Curious indeed.

Yeah, well, note that I have something strange going with my with brain given that I see TV static all the time and sometimes things swimming around.

Just wiggle the wire in the back of your head, makes the snow go away for me .

Just as to not post some useless drivel, I like VHD myself, but 1 cap no where near supresses my appetite all day. Takes two to get a decent stim effect, and it does feel a little "dirty", but finding powerful (enough) legal stimulants that feel "clean" is quite hard.

FWIW I have the drug tolerance (ANY drug or supplement) of an 800lb grizzly bear....

I'm interested to see how the appetite supression and so on pans out with this but I'm leaning towards "not all that great" as there are no novel ingrediants in the formula.

The original Venom also generated such remarks which quickly subsided as reports of feeling like complete shit started popping up regularly.

Yeah I have noticed that cross-tolerance is not an absolute rule when it comes to OTC stims.
A very basic variety is for one dose ED (pre workout boost) that I have tried is

day 1 Caffeine
day 2 Ephedrine
day 3 Off
day 4 Caffeine
day 5 Ephedrine
day 6 off
day 7 off

Did not stop working for as long as I employed it (several months) at standard dosing (200 mg caffeine, 25 mg ephedrine).

Once I used Ergopharm AMP too much and got tolerance to the stuff, but 1 cap of Venom HD3 was stronger than 4 caps of AMP (so no cross tolerance).

Make no mistake you still get the comedowns, depression and burnout but by switching up your stims you can sometimes just keep going without losing effect.

I like NADH + Tyrsosineto stave off those effects (empty stomach in the morning) of stim use along with stuff to put you out at night (phosphatidyl serine, benzos, theanine, antihistamines etc).. Def makes a difference. Run the stims solo without "support" and you get burned fast.

A similiar approach can be taken for sleep meds (key is different mechanisms) to avoid some addiction and tolerance :

day 1 Z-meds (zopliclone or similiar).
day 2 anti-histamine.
day 3 off
day 4 z-meds
day 5 anti-histamine
day 6 off
day 7 off.

Venom absolutely kills my appetite-I always took 2 pills 2x, so 4 a day. It put me in a very happy mood, I enjoyed it, however it seems to effect my prostate quite a bit. I couldn't sleep because I had to get up every 5 mins to pee. I also had problems getting an erection with it, but it definately killed my appetite.

Well I don't think I'll be using this again. I felt pretty crappy at the end of the day. To be honest, I don't know how the main active works in this stuff. But it seems like it depletes the hell out of something...? I took some PC and 5HTP, but that didn't seem to help. Cardio didn't help. Theanine + Phenibut did. But I would say don't let my review put you off. As stated above, I seem to have some weird brain chemistry. One cap did pretty much kill my appetite all day. YMMV.

You are not the only one who had that reaction. I have seen lots of people with the same response. First I read who got it was Prolongatum (btw where did he go?).

Perhaps those who don't get sick from sulbutiamine (or spike) will do fine with this. I had read about people getting flu shakes/etc from spike but I never noticed such a reaction.

I got BAD flu-like systems with Spike, so bad I had to leave work. With Venom I noticed no such issues, however I did experience cold feet and hands, as well as dry mouth.

flu=yohimbine?

possibly, yohimbine always made me feel like ass, rapid temp changes and shit. Def. could be construed as flu like.....

yupp. alpha2 is critical for immune activation.

+1 on the prostate issues on Venom. I've spoken about this before. Frequent urination and serious "dribble" effect. And of course it is supremely difficult to get or sustain an erection when your body is in balls to the wall "fight or flight" mode.

I also noticed that after about a week or so I would start to get persistent right sided frontal headaches from Venom. They would last for a day or two after my last dose and rapidly come back upon re-administration. I think it had something to do with the 5-HTP for me as I've tried almost every other thing in that list, even the Sulbutiamine, at very high doses.

I tried some EC with the herb 500mg... and seriously.. i feel full and the thought of food makes me sick.. it lasts the whole day! LOL..

so i cant take it or i wont eat for days!!

yet to try venom but i have a bottle

Which herb are we talking about here?

I have been using 1 venom AM with 1 bronkaid (25mg ephedrine sulfate)
then later in the day I was adding a primatene (12.5 mg E HCl)

was working nicely, though effects have slowed. gonna take a break from it for a while.

I though the Venom was pretty good. At 1 a day, extremely economical. At two, not bad. any more, loses true value.

If anyone can please help me.... I was wondering if the Venom Hyperdrive 3.0 is pro anabolic? what the effects on the muscle tissue would be? is this strictly for burning fat or will it harm my muscles if i take it? I just need something that will make me lose around 15 lbs. (IM OPEN FOR SUGGESTIONS) ;] of fat and leave the muscle, but I don't like the jittery feeling of hydroxycut hardcore or any products that make me feel like that. THANKS IN ADVANCE!!

If you don't like hydroxycut hardcore, this shit will blow you out of the water. Stay away. Probably the strongest OTC stim I've ever encountered.

Do you have any suggestions? Im lookin for perferabbly a thermogenic that is effective in burning fat, that dosnt give you the jittery feeling and is pro anabolic? Thanks.

Why not try a non-stim? Something more geared towards appetite suppression and mobilizing FFAs. DCP could be handy, as would Sesamin or HEAT stack. Any of the stimulatory thermos are going to have you feeling like a madman if you think hyrdroxycut hardcore is too much stimulation. The going trend seems to be gerared to overstimulation rather than adequate/under-stimulation with thermos these days.

Cancer will do the trick.

Seriously though, supplements don't cut 15lbs of fat. Diet, exercise, and discipline does.

How about stacking tonalin CLA with an appetite suppresion like the ones you mentioned above? Will the CLA still protect the muscle with eating less though?
THANKS

Well, I weight train for 45 min and do cardio for 30 mins a day 5 out of 7 days of the week. It is stubborn body fat! so i wanted to give something a shot. i currently take like 7 grms of cla tonalin a day but it works incredibly slow.