So this is the eating pattern I've proposed for myself on IF:

Day 1: Full PSMF
Day 2: PSMF day, workout, low carb/high fat/high protein refeed at night
Day 3: Full PSMF
Day 4: PSMF day, workout, high carb refeed/high protein at night

Mr. Question and Loki were big proponents of using DNP during UD2.0 to help accelerate glycogen depletion. DNP's got a half life of 36 hours... So why couldn't one use 200-400mg of DNP on day 1 of the proposed schedule? The two biggest issues I can see are:

1. You might feel like crap for a day or two.
2. Increased carb cravings.

Also, seems like one could possibly pulse some sort of androgen to increase favorable partitioning and protein synthesis on Day 4. An AI could be used on Day 1 to balance this out.

Thoughts?

What? Nobody wants to talk about IF and DNP now?

I couldn't do it, the only day I might be able to handle is day 4. DNP makes me crave carbs severely.

out of curiosity, what's your current weight and bodyfat level, what's your goal, and how long do you plan to run like this? why dnp vs. running a deeper deficit?

I recentlly ran DNP with 20mg Havoc on a modified IF (2 casien based low fat/low carb shakes during the day) along with Sesathin and it worked out pretty good.Havoc was used for around a month with DNP runs at 400mg(couple days I threw in an extra 200mg) for 4 to 6 days.Only did 3 runs with DNP and if I hadn't gotten a bad chest cold I would have ran it more frequently and obviously had better results.

I'd avoid pulse dosing as everything I've seen makes it look like a wive's tale(Ras has posted a lot on this).

Your high cho refeeds will not play out like you think they will as eating any kinds of carbs (exceptions of green veggies) makes body heat just overwhelming.I wouldn't go past anything more than an apple or two as it's a good source of pyruvate as well as fiber and just an excellent fruit source while on DNP.

Cravings were somewhat of an issue but tolerable.

Bump for Kimbo.

DNP would be used to deplete glycogen, not necessarily to induce a deeper deficit.

Kim,run a search under "Loki DNP".

He discussed a lot of this in depth a while back.

Edit:
Decided to look into this myself and the DNP/PSMF related threads seem to have all been deleted.

Here are some relevant treads:

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.p...amp;hl=loki+dnp

A stretch as far as relevancy to the topic but a chunk of pertinent info in this thread regardless:

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.p...20dnp&st=90


http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.p...amp;hl=dnp+loki

Colin, why do you think I started this thread? You did read the first post in this thread, right? I already mentioned that I'd read Loki's thoughts on glycogen depletion WRT DNP. Mr. Question's as well. I'm trying to apply the same concepts to IF.

Your first post stated you'd be IF'ing but also reads like you'd be on a PSMF so in my defense it was somewhat confusing.

WRT adding in androgens and AI's,I'm more in favor of not pulsing but if one is on a moderately dosed cycle (ex. Havoc at 15-20mg ED) I think raising dosage to 30-40mg on the day of the refeed to be a good move as far as repartitioning etc is concerned.

Yeah, I can see how that could be confusing. Workout days are a PSMF with a 4 hour refeed window post-workout. Off days are PSMF all day. Thus an IF.


Yeah, that's a thought. Wish there was some sort of fast-acting oral androgen that worked well with refeeds.

Kimbo what do you think of using GPA instead of DNP.

DNP PWNT GPA.

ABBR, FTW!

GPA is as snazzy a TLA as DNP. Perhaps even snazzier.

What is ABBR?

Not sure about GPA. It would depend on how long it takes to build up in your system, how long it sticks around, and how good it is for depleting glycogen.

Huh?

If you can stand it,use both DNP and GPA as they certainly compliment each other's MOA.Add in Sesathin or fibrates for the synergytic trifecta.You will of course feel like shit but I'd rather intensify the miserable expierience in order to get the amount of time I spend on DNP while dieting reduced leading to quicker/more pronounced results.



Lliorh has posted that he's dropped a high dose of var during refeeds/cheats to help with partitioning,worth a mention but I don't know this would work.I still think just taking squirts of androgens at one's desire when not on cycle could wreck hell on hormonal homeostatis though.

And yeah,I heard Dr.D is a cross dressing closet case with a Hitler fetish.

Well, again, during the setup above one would only use DNP (or GPA if it worked) for 1 day out of every 4 in order to deplete glycogen from the previous day's refeed. So the sides shouldn't be too terribly bad, especially since the refeed will come around again by the time the DNP is out of your system.

Yeah,sorry for the tangent.

GPA doesn't work quickly enough (I believe Spook posted it takes a week or so to kick in) if it even has the ability to deplete glycogen that signifigantly,ATP reduction is a different matter altogether.

I didn't realize you were only using DNP once every 4 days. I take it on weekends occasionally and other than sweating a little more and feeling some heat, it's not bad. There is no lethargy or anything when I've used it for 1-2days with a break. Also, if only using 200mg, I feel nothing other than slight heat.

If you are using it one every 4 days Kimbo what is the amount of DNP do you think you will need to deplete glycogen enough to a worthwhile level.

Good info, thanks. I think one good thing about my proposed setup is minimal sides.

Well, Loki and Mr. Question recommended 800mg of DNP post UD2.0 refeed - Loki recommended 800mg all at once, while Mr. Question spread his dose out over 2 days. UD2.0 refeeds are also followed up by an isocaloric day. It depends somewhat on how many carbs you'd take it, but I wouldn't think you'd need any more than 400mg.

Ah I see, yes that is on the high end of dosing so I would take that as being worthwhile.