Par was explaining here how Liporderm could be enhanced with the addition of nicotine+capsaicin.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/par36.htm

Anyone tried this out with NAPALM? I know the formula is good enough on its own, but for bodybuilders too much is never enough...

As far as the liquid capsaicin product, I couldn't find such a thing. I guess if it is legal to buy over the counter, we can discuss what it is, no? Anyone know what product is referred to here and if it si still available in the US? If not, what has the concentration of capsaicin have to be in a cream to be effective?

Finally how do we add nicotine? I don;t really like the idea of crushing nicotine tablets due to the large particle size we would likely get. As far as patches, don't they need to stay on one spot for days? If so, how do you combine them with NAPALM? I am a little confused...

I know people have added clen, I was also thinking of doing so in the future. I just never got around to it. Capsaicin is passed over because rassberry ketones are present, and have similar action with less burn. I dont know about the nicotine, ahvent heard about direct use with it yet, but I'm sure someone has.

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=31505

Capsaicin is still very much legal. The one Spook was referring to in the article was Absorbine, but AFAIK they don't sell that version anymore(all I've seen is "Absorbine Jr." which is just menthol). You should be able to find "Capzasin HP" cream or a "Capzasin" roll-on with liquid inside(fairly new I believe). Most people just use the cream. You can find it by the arthritis creams(that's what it is) in most grocery stores or Walgreens type stores.

As for the Nicotine, Spook just put the patches on the area after applying the Cap and LipoDerm-Ultra once it dried.

Check out this thread. It should help. http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.p...c=6647&st=0

thanks so much; didn't realize similar topics were discussed
checking them out right away

Best,

Sub

I think a few folks have added cap to Napalm over on AM and reported very good results.

Nobody is worried about the GA lowering their T levels?

non-systemic so it shouldn't really be an issue..no?

Such a minute amount of the actives in Napalm are absorbed systematically so a drop in test from the inclusion of GA would be insignifigant.

Napalm stimulated me at night a great deal...so there is some systemic action

Interesting. Seems like once the GA penetrated the epidermis it would be picked up by the microcirculation in the dermis and transfered to general circulation in fairly short order. I'm not sure I understand how you could prevent this from happening. Although even if it went systemic, it would not necessarily make it less effective for fat loss as GA appears to be effective orally too (Armanini D, et al 2003).

How much GA is being delivered /ml of product?

I'm not sure offhand,I'll check with Savage.

The study was 150mg GA/day delivered daily with the oral licorice. Because we labeled the Napalm as a prop. blend to protect the exact formulation of the product, we'd probably dance around giving out a value here as well.

If I were guessing (which I am) Napalm delivers less GA daily then the above protocol.

I use napalm, and I ain't no estro-bitch
/non-scientific proof

Fucking Lame. Good to see I get credit for my work. Plagiarism blows.

I tried..

I think I'm noticing this as well...my sleep hasn't been restorative the past 2 days I've been using it...

Has anyone tried adding powder or liquid clen to Napalm? I've seen it discussed, but don't think I've seen anyone actually do it.

Anyone have any thoughts on adding aminophylline to Napalm, in leiu of clen (both beta receptor agonists)?

Fair enough. Although without knowing the relative bioavailabilities of transdermal vs oral its hard to come to any conclusions based just on the dose. Given licorice's fairly well established ability to mess with various hormone levels, have you guys done any before and after saliva testing just to be sure?

Anyone know how much room is left in Napalm to add other ingredients, such as aminophylline?

Bump! I don't want to start another thread, but I will if I have to!

don't know, but i just started my napalm + clen. I want to go to the store and get some cap hp roll on baby!

How much clen did you add? Did you use liquid or powder?

liquid I had left over from an earlier purchase. I would get really bad shakes, so I figured this woule be a good way to make use of it. I had about 13 ml left @ 200mcg/ml for a grand total of 2600mcg. I have heard people go up to 3000mcg, which is a whole bottle from a fairly popular research chem source. Mine was purple colored, so it darkened the napalm, but hey, we'll see what happens. I really want to add the cap, cause so far I dont feel the burn, and only a slight tingle. I have an extensive history of icyhot/sportscreme/bengay, so I am used to burn. Cap is being added. soon.

MOD EDIT: No.

I would think that if you're really worried about this, a low dose AI or even an AI mixed into your Napalm would counteract it.

I meant to say: where do you guys get your Cap? can you get it in liquid form already, or do you always have to extract?

Who messed with this response and why?

Please email me.

Got any links to the research showing GA messes with hormonal levels?

PMID: 10515764, PMID: 12373628 , PMID: 14520600, PMID: 15579328, PMID: 16513152

These all looked at the effect of licorice, not isolated GA, but the hormonal effects appear to be mainly the result of actions by GA on beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase and its kin...

Its not an issue of aromatization...the GA has direct effects on levels of sex hormones, cortisol, PTH and some other hormones and generally moves them in directions that are not helpful, at least for men.

Haha, if you think using Bengay is even close to what you are going to experience, you are in for a rough day.

I don't know the given amount in the carrier, but I did see this, "It returned to pre-treatment levels after discontinuation" in regards to total test.

Kraus S. The anti-estrogenic action of beta- glycyrrhetinic acid. Exp Med Surg 27:411- 420, 1969.


The above could shed some light on this issue,If I get the full text on this which I requested within the Inner Circle.

The GA in Napalm may prove to be a decent tool for those with estrogenic fat distribution,moreso than any other topical "fat burning" agent.

Kraus nonwithstanding, all the other (more recent) data indicate that GA is likely anti-androgenic on balance.

I suspect strongly that GA containing products would enhance estrogenic effects like gyno or gynoecogenic fat distribution rather than suppress them and I would use with caution if I had a tendency towards those issues but this is purely speculatory on my part....

Damn,I was thinking the opposite to be the case.

Thanks for the heads up,looks like I'll be throwing my Napalm into the trade thread for good measure.

Lipoderm ULTRA FTW it is then.For the moob afflicted,that is.

Ah, yeah, I've seen these before. A few notes-

-Whether or not a reduction in testosterone in men is caused by GA is controversial. Some studies have found that licorice reduced testosterone, others have not. In fact, 14520600, which you posted above, even makes note of this. And since licorice contains estrogen-like compounds, as well as glycyrrhizic acid (the other major constituent of licorice that has evidence linking it to reductions in testosterone), the issue becomes even less clear-cut. It could very well be one or more of the other constituents causing the reductions in testosterone that some studies show.

-In the studies where licorice did reduce testosterone (again, licorice as a whole, not isolated GA), most or all appear to measure total testosterone, not free testosterone. In the instances where free testosterone was measured, such as in 14520600, only a slight and statistically insignificant reduction was found.

-Napalm's carrier ensures that the vast majority of ingredients stay localized.

-Pre-treatment hormone levels return to bassline after treatment with licorice stops.

So what we have here are some studies that may or may not be applicable to Napalm (probably not, IMO), since the studies use licorice which is fairly heavy in estrogen-like compounds AND Napalm's carrier is localized. But even if we ignore all of this, we can be pretty certain that if the GA did decrease testosterone levels, they would return to normal after ceasing Napalm.

No disagreement from me here but I would still use with caution if I had estrogen issues...perhaps I am being overly conservative though...

Bump.

+1. What's the deal here?

On the GA issue - FWIW, I've used Targex, Napalm and Fogo, all for at least a month, and I haven't seen any adverse effects with regard to my moobs. I've applied all of them directly to my chest as well.

As Savage said, it's probably something else in licorice that causes this. The study Colin posted specifically addressed GA.

BB.com and the OP have that article as being authored by Par instead of Spook.

Yes,but we don't know what the study I posted actually indicates as no abstract let alone the full text seems to be readily available.

I've posted a request for the full text on it in the Inner Circle full text thread but no one's responded with anything on it.

I'd like to use napalm on my moobs as well as it is certainly a more potent topical fat loss agent than Lipoderm-ULTRA but intil it can be established that there is no aggravation of gyno possible via the GA content I don't think it's wise to take any chances.This kind of sucks but it isn't like Lipoderm-ULTRA is a weak product either.

As far as applying Napalm to other areas of the body and possible drop in T in concerned,I'm in agreement with Savage but eradicating my moobs are my primary concern.(not getting a super tight six pack)

I've been using CLeNapalm for a week and am having bloodwork done on Tuesday...not much actual proof, but if my T levels end up being in the green zone without estradiol being out of whack, then we can probably assume GA is A-OK.

FWIW, Napalm spiked with 6 mg clen is absolutely spectacular.

Make sure to get total and free testosterone tested.

This will absolutely clear up the issue I would think.