Topic Title and description pretty much says it all. This is kind of an offshoot of my previous 4-AD thread, but with some different questions.

I have a bunch of pre ban 4-AD and noticed alot of guys were using it transdermally? What are they using to do this? DMSO? Something else? Is it that much more effective than oral.

Also, any other PH's that would stack nicely with this that are still available. Like CEL M-Drol for example. I have some juggernaut Phera-bol (PP clone) but read it was not such a great product and want the most out of this cycle.

Since 4-AD is not methylated, I've read accounts of using it for up to 8 weeks after dropping out the methyl PH's after 4. Is this a good idea?

Any input appreciated......

I think running an all oral cycle for 12 weeks would be nasty unless you used hcg to maintain testes. But even if libido isnt a concern honestly I (personally) would feel strung out from running an oral cycle that long. I have never done any research on 4-AD so I dont have any suggestions on stacking.

Good luck.

bb

4-ad is a precursor to test orally 900-1200mg a day thats why td is so popular if you wanted to stack i'd go with havoc or something similar havoc is dry 4ad is wet also you'd be able to take advantage of using 2 different class steroids. pp wouldn't be ideal as it is also wet.

i personally wouldn't go with dmso it makes your breath stink if you wanted to use a small bit to pre dissolve it that would be fine primordial performance, cnw, and nutraplanet all sell carriers so take your pick.

Havoc and 4-AD is a great combo. You have some wetness from the 4-AD and a great libido boost, with the synergy of well-being from the two. In addition, 4-AD transdermally will add some decent mass, while the Havoc will keep the gains leaner than a 4-AD only.

I would use the 4-AD in Penetrate carrier, from Nutraplanet.

Thanks for the replies. So is TD that much better than oral?

What kind of dosages are we talking here? I'm 5'11 185 sub 10%BF and I have some half assed Dbol/Test enan cycles under my belt.

How long should I run each for, and quick question, is Havoc a methyl?

One more thing, I've hear 4-AD isn't exactly stable. What is the shelf life of this shit at room temp. I have no idea how old it is....

Thanks guys...

Yeah, I agree. I never meant to imply I would run one that long, I just knew you could run 4-AD longer than most, from what I've read....about 8 weeks. Not sure how the Havoc would fit in there, I don't know much about it. Time to do some research. It's epistane....right?

Actually I believe Havoc came out before Epistane? Havoc is a great product.

Z Supps also has a Epi product: our EpiChlorol which is a combination of Epi + 4-chloro + our proprietary blend.

4-chloro is a 'halodrol' clone (i.e. the original Gaspari Halodrol 50's).

You cant go wrong with either.

bb

Sounds cool but I don't know about adding another compound into the mix, two sounds like enough for now, but if anyone knew the answer to my shelf life question on 4-ad then I might just go ahead and bite. I know this 4-ad has been sitting around for AWHILE now, and I know it's not that stable a compound (from what I've read).

I am also having difficulty deciding on a epi product. Havoc is sold out almost everywhere, Epistane is out at NP where I already have a cart filled with D Sades recommendation for Penetrate to make the 4-ad TD, and I added Epidrol but I am not as convinced on it's quality as Havoc and Epistane have more anecedotal feedback. What do you think guy's, try and find the two with the best rep or go with epidrol?

D Sade: I took your advice and am getting some Penetrate as a TD carrier. Does it come with instructions or do you have any input on how I use it with my capped 4-ad. Does dosing protocols change due to increased bioavailabilty?

Thanks guys....

I personally wouldn't use Havoc...I've ran it twice (once at 30mg for 30 days and second 40mg for 21 days or so) and wasn't impressed either time, nor were a couple of other guys on here. I'm not saying it doesn't work or it's bunk, but just keep that in mind (some guys thinks it's great, and a few of us really weren't impressed). What about Furazadrol (winstrol clone) to run with the 4AD? Guess it depends on your goals too...heard good things about H-Drol as well (more for hardening/cutting though)...

My goals are really just a clean bulk, but I don't mind using some wetter compounds. I am an extreme ecto/meso so I rarely gain fat, but I do hate bloat.

I am 5'10" 178 or so right now after a run with activate extreme (where I just realized that 1 serving was two caps, DOH!, so it was seriously underdosed). I wouldn't mind 10-15 lbs to be knocking on the 200lb door while maitaining my bf which is at the most 10% right now, but like I said, If I gain some fat it's no big deal, just want to retain visible abs....that is my "benchmark" for body comp and diet. When I lose sight of them I adjust accordingly.

I will probably run a real Test/Dbol cycle mid summer, this is just something to keep me occupied and get rid of this 4-ad that's burning a hole in my supp cabinet....

I am also gyno prone so I take that into consideration when running anything, same with MPB.

I am suprised you didn't like Havoc, since everyone seems to rave about it. Everyone's different I guess....

I will check into Furazadrol (is it a methyl?) and H-Drol (what other PH or steroid would you liken that to?)

Bump also for D-sade, I need some input on making the topical with your penetrate. Maybe I'll just shoot you a PM....

TIA

I don't believe Furazadrol is methylated, and it's not a 17aa either I don't think. Seems to be quite safe. H-Drol is supposedly an oral turanabol clone.

as far as shelf life goes it may have lost some potency. how was it stored? wrapped and frozen?

Nope, just room temp on a shelf...I know...but it was out of my hands until a few weeks ago.

I am assuming if anything it just lost potency, how much I wish I knew, but at least I know their is most likely still some "good stuff" left in there.

Do you know anything about using 4-ad transdermally??

It's amazing to me how quickly this knowledge has disappeared from the ether when transdermal use was so prevalent pre-ban. You're best bet is to do some serious searching on BB.com or anabolic minds as I would guess there are probably hundreds of posts about people using 4-ad transdermally. Try the articles on bulknutrition also.

I also recall Pat Arnold posting around the time of the ban(when everyone was buying in bulk) that 4-ad would break down rather quickly unless it was stored in a very meticulous way. I seem to remember him saying that it could be expected to lose about 30% of its potency per year. I could be way off on that number but I am certain he said it would break down fast. I also remember him stating that 1-ad was a much more stable compound(not that that helps you at all).

Good luck!

Yeah, it does actually. Thanks for the reply. It turns out my dumbass thought I had 4-ad, and I actually bought a carrier for TD and all that shit and what I really had was 1-ad, which if you check my other post about it in this forum, I am stacking with 1week dbol/ 3 weeks phera plex clone. I am taking about 400 migs a day, with 20 migs dbol right now.

I am already up from 181 to to 188 in less than a week, and my strength is up like crazy. I am not retaining much of it as water either, so far, so everything is looking good. It does suck in a way, not knowing because of the stack what is doing what, but I am thicker and stronger and after 1 week I am already getting "juice" comments at work so something must be right . Guess my 1-ad should have SOME potency left....

Cool...like I said I do remember him stating that 1-ad/1-test is much more stable then 4-ad. So I'm sure your stuff is still good.

As mentioned previously, there are many recipes in 2+ year old threads on anabolic minds. In fact, they still have a forum for it.
If you are taking a strong designer anabolic that kills your libido or something along those lines it doesn't hurt to add 4AD. Most people does "Classic" cycles tend to include test as the main drug as it tends to have known side effects (which can mostly be countered) and the mental effects are usually positive or at least desirable.
Transdermal improves BV, but it also improves duration of action. Non methylated oral test or 4AD has a very short half life, which is not ideal based on what seems to be "known". It is worth mentioning that estrogen has a longer half life, so if you are not taking an anti-E, you will like notice the mental effects of the estrogen once the 4AD is gone. (most males are quite sensitive to this).
Having said that, 4AD seems slightly less estrogenic than testosterone and significantkly less estrogenic the dbol.
You can keep esters and transdermals at a fairly steady state if you dose with the proper frequency.


None of this is objective fact - I just read it on the internet.

What are your specific transdemal questions? I have gone the injectable and transdermal route. I will be happy to answer any questions I can.
Also as said above many of us use test as the base for all of our cycles. This is with good reason. First off, using a test base offsets many of the side effects of other steroids such as lethargy, impotence and lack of libido. Secondly, test is best. Ask members, most will say their best cycles included test in them. Finally, test has been used for generations now. It has known side effects and doesn't pull any surprises. There is plenty of documented research on it and most of it deems test a safe compound when used in moderation.