Hey everyone, I'm new here, but I've been lurking for a while now after my bf turned me onto this site. I have to say this is all rather new to me, but the knowledge base and articles here are really fantastic. A little bit about me, I'm 18, been training on and off for the last 3 years, but only more recently have I delved into a more structured lifting regime and started up with HIIT cardio sessions.

My stats are as follows:
-5'7"
-120 lbs
-want to lose: 5 lbs
-5 months of weight training
-blonde hair, green eyes, you know

As for my diet, over the past 6 months I went from a low calorie, low fat/protein and moderate carb diet to a more balanced 40-30-30 split of p/f/c. I upped my calories to around 1400-1500 per day. After little success, I changed to carb cycling over the past week. My weekly schedule goes something like this: low,moderate,high,no,mod,low,no. Low days being 50 carbs, moderate 100 and high 150. My diet consists mainly of lean meats, fibrous veggies, nuts and dairy. My boyfriend has pretty much turned me into his little science experiment so you can imagine how perfect my diet and training is. However, despite our attempts, I have yet to manage any significant amount of fat loss.

I started with a three day split once a week and cardio 3-4 times a week. I have since changed to 2 days of weights and kept my cardio the same. As far as weights go, it is an upper/lower split incorporating deadlifts, squats, GHRs for lower body and sticking with a mix of compound and isolative movements for the upper. I have consistently gained strength over this period and I rather enjoy lifting on the boy's side of the gym

As far as supplements go, I've toyed with over the counter fat burners until my boyfriend made me throw them away. With that said, I went on to try Sesathin, an EC stack and Clenbuterol with none having much of an effect.

So that's pretty much it, I just wanted to introduce myself and maybe get some pointers on where my diet/training might be going wrong. It took me a while to muster up the balls to make my first post as this place is obviously a bit intimidating to a newcomer. But I'm excited to get involved in the community my boyfriend speaks so highly of!

PS: I'll post pictures later

Are you D-Termine's girl? this guy rocks, you and him are invited any day for a vacation.

where is your unwanted fat, body wise? also, where you ever thinner or much fatter?

Welcome.

120lbs at 67" is already at the low end of the scale. What is your BF%?

I store unwanted fat predominately in the love handle, lower stomach and thigh areas. I have always been thinner than I am now, up until a year ago when I gained this extra weight. Until recently it has always been easy to diet off, but this time its being very stubborn. Is there any chance this could be related to my age and hormones?

Also, I just bought some Napalm but I think I'm going to wait until I lose a little weight before starting it.



I'm looking into getting my body fat tested. I would estimate I have three pounds of fat to lose throughout my entire body.

It doesn't seem like you have that much to lose. Don't overreact and go with fat burners exc. Just do some walking 3-4 days a week on the treadmill for about 40min and don't not eat, but be observant of the types of foods that you put in your body. Above all, stay motivated and stick with it. You will be where you want to be in no time

Did you have a lifestyle change a year ago?
Do you smoke, how is your sleep, what is your current supplementation?

If you are D's girl you've got more thermogenic/diet pill experience in the last 6 months than I do my whole life.

Women's bodies can be very resiliant unfortunately. It may take some extreme dieting/cardio regimens to get the fat off. Thermogenics IME with women are only a hinderance rather than a stepping stool.

EDIT: What's your daily fat intake?

Welcome!

About a year ago I stopped doing drugs and quit smoking. I've always had healthy sleeping habits. Honestly, I don't think any of this has really affected my weight gain because everything I've been changing recently has been for the better.



My daily fat intake is exactly 50 grams And yes, he has been feeding me ephendrine like its candy but I dont think he was shooting for the thermogenic effect.

Here are the pictures I promised






Notice the anterior pelvic tilt and the excessive curvature of the spine. I just realized my posture is completely fucked , but I'm working on the stretches Marc McDougal demonstrated in his article.

Yes I am pretty much the luckiest guy ever, I'm not even gunna lie




HAHAHAHAHA, ok I'll just tell her to drop the cardio, weights and dieting. Good Advice


I think the only other thing I have to offer here is my speculation that females around this age have huge weight fluctuations that seemingly come and go at their leisure. Is this possibly a hormonal thing? I've thrown just about all my little tricks at her and nothing. I haven't ever seen someone as strict and dedicated as her not be able to drop weight before and its more than a little discouraging to the both of us. That said, imagine your girl doing GHR's like a champ. Shit I have to go or I'll talk this thread to death.

IMHO and experience she will probably need a good 3-5 weeks all the catecholemines you have her on. Especially ephedrine. Slowly titrate cals down. HIIT 3 times a week, low sustained cardio for 30 minutes- 45 3 times a week. Make cardio opposite time of the day that weight training is. Bring fats down to 35g.

I'd guess your metabolism is f'ed up from previous ridiculousness in your supplement regimen coupled with recreational drug use (that I'm assuming you use because your dating the big D).

I just posted a study in the anabolism thread about how beta AR activation in adipocytes can hinder adiponectin production by (it was ridiculous.. I'm guessing, I don't remember 100%) almost 75%. Be careful with anything that's andregenic.

The stims were hardly an issue, never run for all that long considering they showed no effect. So while I have had her on different stims, the amount of time on and the dosages were no where near what you might think. Recreational drug use was further in the past than she posted, hell I can't remember the last time she even drank. Once again, heading down the wrong path imo. Even while she was on essentially the same p/f/c split as she is now at 1100kcal/day she wasn't losing weight. Her exercise is already borderline excessive for the kcals she's consuming, but you think she should drop lower?

Any speculation on my thoughts concerning hormone regulation and expression for her age group? I watched a few friends as well as my two sisters gain weight out of nowhere, struggle with it for a year or so, then it just dropped off again. I can't help but think that there is something going on outside of diet and exercise here.

Just a thought, but even though you're healthier now, doing certain drugs and smoking are pretty effective for appetite control as well as boosting metabolism.

Also, you look beautiful, I don't think you need to lose weight.

I don't know, I just feel uncomfortable with the idea of this 18 year old girl dieting even harder, and training even harder than she is. Everyone here trusts D knows his stuff... well he himself says he's thrown every trick he knows at her and that extra 2-3 lbs is being stubborn. So big deal! It's a couple lbs. She looks awesome. He loves her and thinks she's beautiful, she's getting healthy. But if those few lbs are so tough to get rid of, despite all his knowledge, isn't it possible there's something else going on, and maybe it isn't the best idea to push even harder?

When you're body is clearly resisting fat loss, it might be wise to NOT push it harder, not diet harder and do more HIIT. Guess what's going to happen as soon as you ease off? And trust me, you won't want or be able to maintain extreme dieting and training indefinitely. So when you do break, there could be some real potential for rebound.

It may be that your body needs some time off stims. I personally have never found stims to help in the long-term - they are useful for a short period of time and in the long-run they just burn you out and it really does make it tough to maintain.

I say this from the perspective of someone who got down to pretty damn low bf, after going to extremes with diet and exercise, and experienced the rebound. It took my body I'd say 8 months minimum to normalize again, once I started gaining weight back. It was not an easy time. Be careful not to set yourself up for that. You may even be there to a lesser degree, which may explain why fat loss is frustrating you so much right now.

I also wonder if the problem is self-created, and if you both just stopped focusing so much on it, it would matter a helluva lot less to you. Of course in the end you're going to do what you want to do, but does the idea of just letting go of this for a little while even remotely appealing? Maybe another kind of weight would be lifted.

EDIT: ps, I wonder if DS's Lean Extreme might be good for cortisol control....

why would recreational drugs NOT be a factor in you opinion? Just wondering.

Jinx raises good points. I'm not so concerned with the why so much as the how, personally. I'd think about what she's said. She's been there and is an all around super person.

Stiming up someone who is already over active isn't the answer. If she's not on stims now she needs to back the cardio way off, refeed, then back the cals down as well. To be honest at 120lbs, 1100 cals doesn't seem that low to me. I've seen women at that weight need to drop them below 1000 if they're endomorphs in order to achieve what she's attempting. I'm serious when I say she's too active. Theoretically she should be able to drop activity way down as well as cals and get a good idea what her maintenance cals are. Then you can drop cals and very slowly add cardio back in.

I think this is a classic case of too much to fast WRT cardio + dieting. If it's not gradual you will stagnate. I think passing the buck off to "hormones" is an easy way out personally. Unless you want to get into specifics....

again, another IMO, IME piece of excriment from your's truly. Best of luck

This is quite possible. Estrogen dominance is a common thing....not quite as common in girls your age, but If you're on BC, its worth switching to a different pill and assessing the effects. I've seen girls lose 3-5% body fat in a hurry just by switching pills. Xenoestrogens can drive this balance unfavorably as well. I've had good luck with Fish Oil, Milk Thistle and Resveratrol for this issue with numerous female clients, whether the pill is involved or not.

Having all of her skinfolds to compare would help.

That's a great suggestion, the choice of BC can make a substantial difference.

WRT Jake's comments, he may be right about dropping calories further, but my original point was, who the hell wants to eat 1100 calories a day for the rest of their lives just to maintain? Not worth it, in my opinion, especially for someone who's already drop dead gorgeous and apparently in good health. I honestly believe that just taking your focus off those pounds for a bit, staying active, keeping diet under control, and relaxing stim use (and stress levels in general over this 'issue') would be a great way to start. While doing that, take a closer look at pills if you're on one, and consider trying something else - higher progesterone, lower estrogen.

That said, I know the frustration of those few nagging pounds. And I still feel that stims do women's hormones no favours, long-term.

Some people have gotten good fat-loss acceleration with non-stim supps like forskolin too.

I agree with the above info. That teenie little bump on her lower belly is not a big deal. Little bit of posture correction, little bit of the above advice and you should be fine.

I actually think your percentage of bf is a healthy percentage and posture correction will do ya.

That is the main thing.

I think stims are not the option for active people.

before I give advice I need some more info

JENnuh, if you are active enough, you can ditch the stims.

It will be very helpfull if you will post a skinfold so we will know if the fat is SAT or VAT. from what I see, There is a little VAT but its mostly SAT in the lower abdominals, back, hips(gluteal/iliac region). am I correct?

when you quit smoking etc did you gain only in the abdominals (circumference of your tummy) or also in your hips? I'm willing to bet the hip fat was there before.

I wish she would jump in right now, I think some misconceptions are being a bit exaggerated. And before I say anything else, I love her just the way she is, don't think for a second this is me pushing something on her. Rather me enjoying her interest in bodybuilding and the like.

Stims, like I said earlier are not being heavily used, and are cycled. Before New Years after a good month or two or weights and my adjustments to her diet, she had leaned out really nicely and gained a good deal of core strength. The the holidays hit and she stopped lifting for a couple weeks, and let up her diet, but I would hardly view it as unhealthy. To the contrary, I was glad her body got a break from months of hard dieting. She gained a little back in that amount of time, but not much...

Then in the last month its started creeping back up on her. She noted she switched BC, but only to a cheaper generic version. If I recall correctly, Wellbutrin and Deprenyl vary in quality and effects, so perhaps that is the case here? I've always had a odd sense of foreboding about BC, playing with your hormones your whole life just seems like a bad idea to me.

Appetite is no problem, I'm jealous of her strict diet, and having to force down 1400 calories a day. Jeez, if only dieting was so kind to me...



She doesn't drink, what else has negative effects on body comp? She did however, if you want to get way back in time, drink heavily for a while about 1.5 years ago. Never experienced that myself, so I can't comment on any prolonged effects. Care to extrapolate and lay down some more excrement ?



Have her on fish oil already, but what would Milk Thistle and Resveratol add to the equation?




Yeah stims ime are a quick way to get where you want to be, but certainly not anything to stay on year round or anywhere near that. I mean when I have a few pounds to drop, clen sheds it in a week. Or used to anyways The skinfolds are coming, its something she's been wanting to do for a while now. I'll let her respond on the smoking cessation, I think she is still trying to figure out when the weight gain began.

while stims may be an good idea in the short term - for you - I don't think females benefits from it at all. See the anabolism thread for stim's effect on adiponectins. Pretty serious effect really. The diuretic effect of it needs to be noted as well. Stims just aren't a good idea IMO. Especially if your a shortaaaaaayyy!

I don't have any studies or proof at my finger tips but cannabis is something I've never heard being a part of a really lean individual's dieting regimen.

On a related note - is she a worrier? I've been doing lots of research on propranolol and it looks very promising WRT leptin support and fiaf suppression while dieting intensely. Not to mention just chilling out.

You've never experienced stagnation of diet? You must be the leanest OC boy on a surf board dude

I'm always willing to squeeze out some excriment for you D

EDIT: thyroid issues?

The MT and the Res will help to regulate the estrogen dominance, and they work exceptionally well for this.

I have my clients use this: 2 caps, 2x/day

And this: 2-4 caps, 1x/day

You will probably see the quad and tricep drop the fastest with these, although overall body fat loss is greatly encouraged once these hormones are in balance.

NAC is also a good addition at 600mg 2x/day for visceral fat loss.

Beta Blockers good, but Clen is overboard? I must admit my experience/knowledge of beta blockers is severly limited, so you'll have to enlighten me. As far as MJ goes, we live in California...You can't avoid it. And the THC itself is not the culprit, its the munchies no? She probably stresses, she's on her way to UCLA and has more classes per semester under her belt than I've taken in my life. And so far as thyroid, no problems I could imagine, but she is a girl so who knows.

As far as my stagnation? I diet so hard and fast there is no time for that. Not to mention I can't stay on one longer than a month or so anyways. My willpower is left with my days of being a natural back in high school




Cool cool, I'd rather her be on healthy items as opposed to things like clen and fibrates. I have a tub of MT laying around too, so we can start that right away. Thnx Marc

Make sure to get up to around 1g of the extract in 2 divided doses.

Typically I use this heierarchy: Fish Oil>Milk Thistle>Resveratrol

Keep the previous one in as you go down the line.

I just want to make it clear that my efforts are driven only by my neurotic quest for perfection. I appreciate your response but I thought of all places a body building forum would be a place where I could find support. I diet and train hard and I want my body to look as though I do. My baby D only supports me because he wants to see me happy, and of course because of his wealth of knowledge. However, Jinx made a good point and I think I will back off a little and stop being so neurotic about it. I really do appreciate you taking the time to respond and helping me see how I don't have to be unhappy on my quest.



I may have been a little misleading with my choice of words concerning stimulant use. But since I haven't had too much success with them in the past, I suppose I will lay off the stims for a while. Your powers of obversation are strong, but where are you going with this thought? Also, I gained the hip fat, it was not already there.

apples to oranges. I didn't say ALL beta-blockers. I said propranolol and I also said check that thread out for some research that I personally think is pretty damn interesting.

anabolism thread:

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.p...31431&st=90

I Start here and continues into the last page. I included my misguided thoughts as well

I think you got me on the digestion of pubmed clippings, never been much for them myself. I did however enjoy your review of the Westside program, as I'm still reading it. Skinny fat ecto's have a weird little phenotype and I must admit its nice to know I'm not alone with all the odd shortcomings we have. Hell if not for my stubborn 3% of BF I wouldn't know anything about BB at all. I couldnt image where that way of life would have led me.

here's what I suggest

exercise: at least 4 hours a week of resistance training.
aerobics: at least 3 hours a week of low intensity cardio
two weekly sessions of sprints with full recovery. distance of sprints 50m to 400m. I suggest the following
week 1
5X100m, 80% intensity
week 2
5X100, 90% intensity
week 3
5X150, 80% intesity
week 4
4X100, 95% intensity
week 5
6X200, 80%
week 6
6X100, 90%
week 7
5X200, 90%
week 8
3X200, 95%
and progress to 8X200-250 at 95%.


this will combat both mobilization and oxidation issues.

it will require adequate lifestyle (sleep and diet) and structuring of wrokouts

what I'll do is the following split:

Monday: resistance AM, Sprints PM
Teusday: resistance AM, LIT PM
Wedesday: LIT
thursday:Resistance AM, Sprints PM
Friday:LIT
Satruday:resistance
Sunday:Off(or VLIT in the form of hiking/biking)

If you find you can't maintain/reach this volume, your problem is than hormonal/central.
Lior.

stupid research and it's references.... Anyhow, from on I'll try a little harder to make my summary of what I think the study means easier to read. I think I included those as of late and all the research on propronolol is in the last two pages i believe. Just if you're feeling patient some day, check it out.

If I get some time I'll have to do some more reading.

As for Jenna, I checked her bf with a handheld thing and also a scale, both tested at 18.5%, bodyweight around 125 or so. She weighed a bit more than she had thought which wasn't fun. So she switched bc pills, back to the old one, same drug, diff brand, and she already dropped a pound or two. I'm about to go run her through the ringer now for a leg day, God I feel bad for her

When I make a suggestion, don't ever doubt it. It will only cause you pain, suffering, and humiliation.

So I switched my pill about a month ago, and the fat loss has picked up again. It's kinda shady that a generic brand was actually a different composite than it's more expensive counterpart. I've been carb cycling as well for the past month, while it has been difficult to strictly adhere to, it does provide leniency and variation though which is much appreciated. I also just started Napalm and will get a log going with pics and all that jazz soon enough.

As far as my suspected lordosis goes, I recently went to see the the Chiro and he seemed to think my posture issues stemmed from a twisted vertebrae in my neck. The most pronounced of my alignment issues has always been a drooping right shoulder, so I have a lot of work ahead of me in that respect. It's nice to finally have a plan laid out for that problem, not to mention the Doctor is especially nice and seems rather sincere in his work. That's pretty much it for now, but keep an eye out for my Napalm log coming soon to a thread near you

all chiros think you have a twisted vertebrae. like psychiatrists think you have chemical imbalance in your brain and psychologists think you have issuses stemming from your childhood.. that's just they way they are.

did you see the plan I outlined for you8 several posts up?

Thanks for the advice, a couple people told me the same thing but I never knew that was the general diagnosis they dish out to all patients. While I remain leery, I still think this doctor is legitimate. Plus, the four therapy sessions he prescribed for my rehab are certainly worthy of my time. If I was skeptical of all chiros I would be walking around with a gimp shoulder the rest of my life. As for the plan you outlined for me, right now, between school and work, I simply don't have time to maintain that. But I would definitely be interested in trying it in the near future once my schedule clears up.

cool, keep in mind that to look like a fit person you have to be one.

Lyle's stubborn fat book is out FWIW: http://bodyrecomposition.com/stubbornfatsolut.html

Just thought I would add that after only a week or two of stretching her shoulder is almost perfectly level, and pain free. It had a good 3/4-1" hang, so that large of an improvement right off the back was fairly impressive