Hey if you guys can, please chime in with your knowledge and any research you might have on this thread: Fadogia or Diallylsulfide? Researching for our upcoming natty test booster!!!!

There are lots of knowledgeable members on here so we at Z Supps would like to rely not only on that knowledge but also on your responses to what products you are interested in.

thanks,

bb

We dunno either mate

1: J Ethnopharmacol. 2008 Jan 17;115(2):288-92. Epub 2007 Oct 9. Links
Effects of oral administration of aqueous extract of Fadogia agrestis (Schweinf. Ex Hiern) stem on some testicular function indices of male rats.Yakubu MT, Akanji MA, Oladiji AT.
Medicinal Plants Research Laboratory, Department of Biochemistry, University of Ilorin, P.M.B. 1515 Ilorin, Nigeria. tomuyak@yahoo.com

AIM OF THE STUDY: The effects of administration of aqueous extract of Fadogia agrestis (Schweinf. Ex Hiern) stem on some testicular function indices of male rats (Rattus norvegicus) and their recovery potentials for 10 days were investigated. MATERIALS AND METHODS: Rats were grouped into four: A, B, C and D where A (the control) received orally 1 ml of distilled water (the vehicle), B, C and D (the test groups) received orally on daily basis graded doses of 18, 50 and 100mg/kg body weight of the plant extract, respectively, for 28 days. RESULTS: Compared with the control, extract administration for 28 days at all the doses resulted in significant increase (P<0.05) in percentage testes-body weight ratio, testicular cholesterol, sialic acid, glycogen, acid phosphatase and gamma-glutamyl transferase activities while there was significant decrease (P<0.05) in the activities of testicular alkaline phosphatase, acid phosphatase, glutamate dehydrogenase and concentrations of protein. Recoveries were made by the animals on some of the testicular function indices mainly at 18 mg/kg body weight. CONCLUSIONS: The alterations brought about by the aqueous extract of Fadogia agrestis stem are indications of adverse effects on the male rat testicular function and this may adversely affect the functional capacities of the testes. The recovery made at the dose of 18 mg/kg body weight as used in folklore medicine suggests that it does not exhibit permanent toxicity at this dose.

PMID: 18023305 [PubMed - in process]

200lb bber you would need at least 16grams a day to get theraputic effects...

Asian J Androl. 2006 Nov;8(6):719-23. Epub 2006 Jul 11. Links
Modulatory effects of diallyl sulfide against testosterone- induced oxidative stress in Swiss albino mice.Prasad S, Kalra N, Shukla Y.
Environmental Carcinogenesis Division, Industrial Toxicology Research Centre, PO Box 80; M.G. Marg, Lucknow 226001, India.

AIM: To investigate the protective effect of diallyl sulfide (DAS), a constituent of garlic, against testosterone-induced oxidative stress in male Swiss albino mice. METHODS: The animals were given low (250 mg/animal) and high dose (500 mg/animal) of DAS in corn oil for 7 days along with testosterone (5 mg/kg body weight, i.p.). At the end of the study period, the prostate and the liver were dissected to determine various antioxidant enzyme levels (catalase, superoxide dismutase, glutathione reductase, glutathione-s-transferase) and lipid peroxidation. RESULTS: In testosterone treated mice, depleted antioxidant enzyme level was accompanied with enhancement in lipid peroxidation in prostate and liver. DAS significantly restored the testosterone-induced antioxidant enzymes and lipid peroxidation in the both organs. These changes appear to be mediated by the antioxidant-enhancing effects of DAS. CONCLUSION: The results of the present study suggest that DAS is effective in exerting antioxidant effects by inhibiting testosterone-induced oxidative stress and might be helpful in preventing prostate cancer.

PMID: 16855775 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

and I just plain couldn't find anything useful WRT trying to compare the two on function. Infact it'd probably be good to use the diallylsulfide as a filler in the caps (if some were made).

Fadogia wins it looks like... but at 16grams a day for dosage the consumer could be the one to lose his wallet.

Side note - the only reason I didn't view this thread earlier was the capslock in the title.

Sorry about the capslock. Just a cut n paste job.

thanks js

bb

Jake, any idea what % the actives were standardized for in that study you posted above?

Do those two studies warrant that conclusion?

In terms of price and efficacy,I've got 25mg clomid FTW over any "natty" test booster.

I haven't found much conclusive evidence for diallylsulfide (garlic) with respect to LH stimulation. However it does seem to be a good addition for drunk binging (I won't make the leap to say it will help with oral steroids)

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Chem Biol Interact. 2007 Aug 30;169(2):80-90. Epub 2007 Jun 2.Click here to read Links
Combined metadoxine and garlic oil treatment efficaciously abrogates alcoholic steatosis and CYP2E1 induction in rat liver with restoration of AMPK activity.
Ki SH, Choi JH, Kim CW, Kim SG.

College of Pharmacy and Research Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Seoul National University, Seoul, South Korea.

Alcoholic steatosis is the earliest and most common response to heavy alcohol intake, and may precede more severe forms of liver injury. Accumulation of fat, largely triglyceride, in hepatocytes results from the inhibition of fatty acid oxidation and excessive oxidative stress involving CYP2E1. This study evaluated the therapeutic effects of metadoxine, garlic oil or their combination on alcoholic steatosis. Feeding rats an alcohol-containing diet for 4 weeks elicited an increase in hepatic triglyceride content and induced CYP2E1. The concurrent administration of metadoxine and garlic oil (MG) to rats during the last week of the diet feeding efficaciously abrogated both fat accumulation and CYP2E1 induction as compared to the individual treatment at higher doses. Histopathology confirmed the ability of MG combination to inhibit lipid accumulation. Blood biochemistry verified improvement of liver function in rats treated with MG. Alcohol administration resulted in a decrease in AMP-activated protein kinase-alpha (AMPKalpha) phosphorylation, which was restored by MG treatments. Recovery of AMPK activity by MG was supported by an increase in acetyl-CoA carboxylase phosphorylation. Hepatic fatty acid synthase (FAS) expression was markedly decreased after alcohol consumption, which correlated with a decrease in AMPK activity and a commensurate increase in lipid content. Combined MG treatments caused restoration of the FAS level. These results demonstrate that the combination of MG effectively treats alcoholic steatosis with CYP2E1 inhibition, which may be associated with the recovery of AMPK activity, promising that the combination therapy may constitute an advance in the development of clinical candidates for alcoholic steatosis.

PMID: 17606256 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

in terms of "testosterone boosting power" it's at least good enough to stimulate conversation which this thread had zero of before I posted. So it's good enough for me. Not to mention that it seems like we're comparing apples to oranges unless someone can find evidence of diallysulfide creating some kind of effect on the testes. I couldn't. Ozzman found some WRT to AMPK production. It's a start.

We need Dash or Stay to scoop up the full test of that study. I don't have access.

Good discussion everyone.

It's an aqueous extract so it's not going to be hella high... dosage will be the first road block to over come with this substance. Lot's of bs will be tossed around I'm sure. This; however, should manifest it's effects on a hormone panel. So I'd assume it's only time before we get these things written in stone.

Garlic Supplementation Increases Testicular Testosterone and Decreases Plasma Corticosterone in Rats Fed a High Protein Diet
Yuriko Oi, Mika Imafuku, Chiaki Shishido, Yutaka Kominato,*
Syoji Nishimura* and Kazuo Iwai

Search for that

1.46mg was the lowest dose injected into rats, but more math is needed

I believe Z Supps has some info on DAS/garlic increasing test, b/c I know he has that in mind, but I couldnt find anything in my abbreviated search. Thanks Fit

Well here is the paper

Scivation originally had this in Dialene 4, but I think it was removed because of odor problems.

Fadogia definitely more promising right now

Use them both, neither one is extremely effective in normal dosages alone. I would also add a non-related ingredient, maybe Bioperine for increased absorption or nettle extract to increase FREE T.

Big bump for Z-supps!!

Asian J Androl. 2007 Dec 20 [Epub ahead of print]Links
Crude garlic (allium sativum) feeding has inhibitory effects on adult male reproductive functions.Hammami I, Nahdi A, Mauduit C, Benahmed M, Amri M, Ben Amar A, Zekri S, El May A, El May MV.
INSERM U407, Faculte de Medecine Lyon-Sud, B.P 12, 69921 Oullins Cedex, France. Tel: +33-42623-5924 Fax: +33-42623-5916 E-mail: mauduit@sante.univ-lyon1.fr.

Aim: To investigate the effects of crude garlic on adult male rat reproductive functions. Methods: Thirty male rats were divided into five groups: group 1 (untreated) and groups 2, 3, 4 and 5 were fed for 30 days with 5%, 10%, 15% and 30% crude garlic, respectively. Testes and accessory organs were weighed and some markers were assessed. Light and electron microscopy observations were also performed. Results: A significant decrease was observed in the body weight of groups 4 (14%; P < 0.01) and 5 (20%; P < 0.01); of the prostate weight in group 5 (29.1%; P < 0.05) and of seminal vesicle weight in groups 3 (14.4%; P < 0.01), 4 (18.3%; P < 0.01) and 5 (27.3%; P < 0.01). In contrast, testis and epididymis weights were unchanged. In epididymis tissue, the alpha glucosidase activity and the spermatozoa density were unchanged. The treatment resulted in a significant decrease in testosterone serum levels in groups 3 (77.3%; P < 0.01), 4 (77.3%; P < 0.01) and 5 (90.9%; P < 0.01), associated with a significant increase in LH serum levels (P < 0.01). Testicular histology showed a dose-dependent increase in the percentage of empty seminiferous tubules. Moreover, testicular function was affected; a significant decrease in phosphatase acid activity (P < 0.01) and testosterone (P < 0.05) contents were observed. Conclusion: Crude garlic consumption during 1 month reduced testosterone secretion and altered spermatogenesis at 10%, 15% and 30% doses.

I can pull up both of the other papers if so desired.

this could be an issue... I'll check out that whole paper. No need to bump a discussion. This isn't a product. Yet.

Really with only one study on each the results could be highly inconclusive as well. In all probability another one could come out next month showing something completely opposite. As I stated before dosage is going to be an issue.

I found an aqueous extract of garlic 50% being Diallyl disulfide (4,5-dithia-1,7-octadiene) , yes this is liquid not powder and is more expensive than FADOGIA. I am doing some research on my FADOGIA supplier before I send him money because I heard of many scams coming out of Nigeria he did tell me though who he supplies here in the US with Fadogia so to confirm this I need to ask that person hopefully he will be helpful.

Yes, that study claims 1.46mg of diallylsulfide was effective , 100mg of the aqueous extract I found would contain 50mg of pure diallylsulfide.
Producing the 50% dyallilsulfide extract will take about a month but there is another aqueous extract readily available which is 30% diallylsulfide/50% diallyltrisulfide which I may use first, this is also a bit cheaper and a little cheaper than FADOGIA ( by the kilo )

The advantage is that one would need a lot less of the aqueous extract as compared to 2.5g to 5g of FADOGIA STEM EXTRACT , also diallyltrisulfide also increases thermogenesis via an increase of noradrenaline, norephedrine and adrenaline which can also be helpful sort of how COleus can help both as a thermogenic and a test booster.

Besides the raw powders we will offer , we plan on bringing a couple of finished products too. We are fully aware most of the current Pro hormones will not be legal always.

Thanks

Z

I can't tell what you are trying to spell.

1.46mg diallyldisulfide is what was used

Diallyldisulfide [88.9%; the remaining
compounds were diallylmonosulfide (5.4%) and diallyltrisulfide
(5.3%)]

But you have to consider oral bioavailability and rat to human conversions...

What is the difference between diallylsulfide and diallyldisulfide?

Hm who can get this one

Good fucking question. I have access to this journal and the article apparently doesn't exist...yet.

Thanks, I have misspelled it all this time, it is diallyldisulfide not diallylsulfide,lol.

I guess the 50% diallyldisulfide would be good and would be the 30% diallydisulfide aqueous extract.

I am guessing right now 500mg to 1000mg of the extract taken everyday, this would contain at least 30% of the active DADF ( 150mg to 500mg)

I do not know what to do, I need more time to research and I am certainly very excited about this.

Thank you

Z

Is quite conflictive, why would it say it decreases serum testosterone then also increase LH?
Z

Because garlic decreases cholesterol synthesis ---> so if your body can't make the T, it's going to jack up LH. That's my theory anyway.

There was something on bbcom about fadogia working to increase test, however it depleted such and such, and needed so be cycled fairly regularly.

I like the stuff that heavy lifter said about Dial " DAS raises testosterone, lowers corticosterone, acts as an uncoupler, may have value as a liver protector on cycle, and acts on several types of cancer. Some human data would be nice though"

looks interesting...