Age: around 17
Body Type: mesomorph-ectomorph, a bit muscular in upper body, my body's not hairy, only a little hairy
What I think I'm suffering from: depression + [sluggish cognitive tempo(maybe)(just search for "sluggish cognitive tempo" for some similar threads), somewhat like ziddy's and tate richardson's conditions], maybe chronic fatigue syndrome, I fit the symptoms of adhd-predominantly inattentive, note though that I didn't have them since age 7, as far as I can remember I was always 'slow', but I didn't have trouble focusing. maybe i have sleep apnea, I don't know, i don't recall waking up during the night. I don't seem to recall any head injuries, i think i've had assisted delivery though.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADHD_predominantly_inattentive:
DSM-IV criteria

The DSM-IV allows for diagnosis of the predominantly inattentive subtype of ADHD if the individual presents six or more of the following symptoms of inattention for at least six months to a point that is disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level:

1. Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.-I'm not sure abt often, but sometimes i display this.
2. Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities.- sometimes
3. Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.- sometimes
4. Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions). -sometimes
5. Often has trouble organizing activities. -sometimes, my desk's not very organized, i only organise it once in a while
6. Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn't want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework). - Yes, at least I think so.
7. Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (e.g. toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools). -Yes sometimes I lose things.
8. Is often easily distracted. -I display this only a little bit.
9. Is often forgetful in daily activities.- Yeah I often can't remember things very well, my short-term's memory not good.

Own IQ estimate: 130-150 for advanced raven's progressive matrices, probably higher for visuo-spatial than verbal, considered 'gifted' My IQ is around 130, at standard deviation 15, calculated by this test: http://iqtest.dk/main.swf(Imo,IQ only measures some aspects of intelligence,if at all)
Eyesight: not very good, myopic
Volition/Willpower/Executive Functioning: not good at all, I find it hard to delay gratification
Appetite:fairly ok, average to below average, craves sugary/salty/fatty foods
Birth Order: Eldest child-parents, who both are the third in birth orders in their families, seem to have quicker thought speeds than me, my youngest and third sibling, a male, seems to be quicker than me by a lot, he's in kindergarten. my second sibling, a girl, also seems to like socializing a lot, the complete opposite of me(well, actually, I DO socialize, it's just that I don't enjoy it very much, maybe it's due to my sluggish cognitive tempo?)
Thinking Speed: Relative to normal people, very slow.Compounded by what i think is depression, extremely slow. Helped a bit by stimulants such as caffeine, but not much- sometimes caffeine makes me a bit sleepy, I don't know why. my mum can do traditional 3-ball juggling and 1 handed 2 ball juggling, I can't do either, even with some practice.Unlike ziddy/tate richardson though, I don't have trouble with hand-eye coordination, just reaction times. I play the piano and guitar, and i think i've reached a respectable level of playinng, though i think i've reached a limit/ceiling-can't improve much more. I'm like spacey, all the time.
Diet:Recently have been consuming lots of caffeine-it helps a lot, without caffeine, i don't know how if i can even cope, i've developed some tolerance to it. i've tried vit c, fish oil(4 maybe a month or so), ginkgo biloba but they didn't help very much
Exercise:I've tried jogging a bit, doesn't seem to do much.
Social Life:Below average/average, i've only had a few close friends, that's all


Well, I've been planning to write this post for a long time now, but didn't have the energy and willpower to do it, until now(I'm on around 300mg caffeine now-caffeine helps, and increases my thinking speed somewhat, but not by much(I've developed some tolerance to it).Part of the reason is also the fact that i'm very afraid of overexposing myself or revealing too much about myself. I hate it very much, but i've not much choice now. As you've probably noticed from my post count, I'm not a very frequent poster, and that is because I don't have the energy to write posts. For most forums I've visited, I'm probably considered more of a lurker than an active participant. I can't imagine how someone manages 100+or even 1000+ or even 10000+ posts while still having a life, even though i spend lots of time on my computer.

I've visited a few doctors, and 1 of them diagnosed me with depression. Another doc, based on the aforementioned doc's diagnosis, prescribed me with prozac(fluoxetine)-somehow I think it's not going to help me much, because I think it'll just change my affective mood, not help with my thinking speed and fatigue and tiredness-which i think is the root cause of my problems), just a few days ago,but I haven't tried it yet, having seen many scary stories on the side-effects of antidepressants. I hope to get modafinil, but i think it's not available here, therefore the next best choices are adderall/ritalin/wellbutrin(bupropion)/strattera. I need something to increase my dopamine. I've looked at Wikipedia, and the Wikipedia page on atypical depression seems to describe me quite well.

From Wikipedia: A. Mood reactivity (i.e., mood brightens in response to actual or potential positive events)- check, I've got this
B. At least two of the following:
1. Significant weight gain or increase in appetite ("comfort eating")- I don't think I have this.
2. Hypersomnia (sleeping too much, as opposed to the insomnia present in melancholic depression)- don't know if I have this, I sleep around 10-12 hours somedays, somedays I sleep around 5-6 hours, depending on how free I am/what things I have to do
3. Leaden paralysis (i.e., heavy, leaden feelings in arms or legs)- When I was around 12 years of age, I sometimes just lie there on the bed/sofa. feeling tired, counting from 1 to 10, then thinking that at the count of 10, I will force myself to get up. Sometimes I just lie there, not able to muster any energy to get up
4. Long-standing pattern of interpersonal rejection sensitivity (not limited to episodes of mood disturbance) that results in significant social or occupational impairment- Sometimes I have this, when criticized, I get stressed and sometimes can't take criticism.

I've always been considered somewhat of an antisocial loner, and I consider myself quite introverted. I think this sluggish cognitive tempo thing caused my depression(actually i'm not sure which caused which, and by how much), but despite this shortcoming, my iq carried me though elementary school. I find that my thinking speed is slow, and therefore I can't keep up in conversations. Looking foward to hearing from you guys.

I was very much like this when I was your age, and I know it sucks. One of the things that really helped me was putting to many irons in the fire so to speak. I would make commitments I knew I would have to work my ass of in order to keep, and my fear of dissapointing others gave me the motivation to get it done.

There is do or do not, there is no try in my mind. A getter' dun mentality if your a redneck like me.

Before any drugs, id try getting into a better excersize routine. If you have trouble getting motivated to do so, my favorite pre-w/o stack is a little amp/ALCAR.

Also when I get real draggy a nice 2-3g Kratom plain leaf gives a real nice boost in energy and mental clarity, but only take it on an empty stomach.

Ill be following this thread closely as I feel I possess many of these same traits even to this day.

Putting many irons into the fire is a good strategy in my opinion. Aim for the stars, and if you fall, at least you'd fall to the sky.
The Yoda suggestion about 'do or do not, there is no try' is quite good also in my opinion. It sort of motivates me to try my best, to overkill on the aspects of life which are most important to me. Many, many times though, even when I've tried my very utmost, the results are still pathetic. Good suggestions, thanks for your advice.

Be careful though, no matter how good you are, you can end up overloaded like me. 22yo Own 1 business and run/market 2 other (commercial painting contractor, and run a concrete decking business, and still drag race at a national level) AND go to school full time with a GF and 2 of her kids.

bump

I think GLA would significantly enhance your cognition.

I would reccomend 3g of ethyl ester EPA/DHA as well as 1200mg of GLA (found in borage oil). Both of these help with ADD type symptoms and it is my opinion that if one is taking EPA/DHA he should supplement with sufficient amounts of GLA.

Cheap borage oil can be found at vitacost.com.

I'm pretty sure ehthyl ester epa/dha was shown to have drastically subpar bioavailability,in comparison to unmodified epa/dha.

Surely though,epa/dha should be used,I'd go with at least 6 grams combined epa/dha.It should be broken up into two seperate dosages and taken with meals.

Well, they're two completely different molecules so you cannot use the bioavailability of one to prove superiority of the product in comparison to the other.

Once I started taking GLA I felt much more cognitively functional (as in a reduction of ADD type symptoms) and generally had an increased sense of well being.

I still haven't tried the prozac yet. I'll see if I can try the 1200mg of GLA in borage oil and 6g combined EPA/DHA or 3g of ethyl ester EPA/DHA sometime soon.

Would Adderall/a stimulant help me, though? I think it's only prescribed to people with treatment-resistant depression/adhd, but I don't know what would classify as treatment-resistant depression/adhd. Should it be used as a last resort? I'm well aware that adderall has its fair share of scary stories too, although maybe exaggerated.

Would you say you have experienced chronic stress and/or social defeat stress? Perhaps in school? Are you anxious, socially or otherwise?

I was in a quite stressful academic situation, you could say chronically stressed, both socially and academically. My anxiousness derives from being somewhat slow in social situations. I don't respond to other people's questions fast enough, and due to that, I get anxious. My grades have been falling, too, and that helps to increase my anxiousness. I have experienced many episodes of social embarrassment/awkwardness, such as being late for classes etc. I'm at a stage of my life now where I've got to make crucial decisions that will have many repercussions in the future, having failed to reach where i want to go academically, and now I've got to do a lot of work to remedy the situation and to work towards my goal(get back on track) and even then, I'll end up at the school I want to go to 1 year late, behind my peers. I don't know what the chronic stress has done to my hippocampus now, it maybe has shrunk a bit.

Sorry for my constant editing. I wanted to add some information.

Dude. Adrenal fatigue and Cortisol/Hormone Panel. Test them... NOW.

You reek of adrenal fatigue. Also, stress and craziness fucks your hormones up, too.

Also, practice relaxation.

Get a grip on your life bro.

Heres an ideal to start with: There is no goddamn thing so important that you cannot, everyday, make ONE hour for yourself. Build from there.

And, most importantly, take care of yourself. Get a good night's sleep. Eat healthy. < best drug.

Keep in mind, a stimulant might not be the best solution. You may, in fact, be exhausted (hence, sluggish cognitive tempo.. surprise!) so a stimulant would just exacerbate things. (Hint: With a new stimulant, you might feel good for a few days but notice how, a few days later, you feel like shit. Thats yourself crashing from being stimulated on another avenue.) In summary: retract instead of extending yourself out.

Yep bump on krazyj.

Also, it would be a good idea to try out 25mg of DHEA per day and see what that does for you. There is a good chance it will make a difference in your case.

Hm..For cortisol reduction maybe ha..


As a 'drug tratment' on his condition,DHEA must be dosed above 100mg to to do it..of course when DHEA supplemmentation is for HRT,doses are lower..

more than that.

It may be tonifying in a lot of useful ways for neuron.

Which neuron.

Not a good idea for a 17 year old male to start taking 100mg of DHEA per day. 25mg will produce a noticeable effect, you definitely get benefits below 100mg per day. If it works he can titrate up under doctor supervision.

I'm having influenza and fever now, but even without flu I still suffer from slow thought and low energy. I just had a good nap just but still is feeling tired, having a mild headache.

What I've found on DHEA, from Wikipedia:
Mayo Clinic on DHEA
mayoclinic.com/health/dhea/NS_patient-dhea

Critical website on DHEA:
skepdic.com/dhea.html

Is there a way to get DHEA naturally, through exercise/food?

I may request to get adrenals/hormones tested next time I visit my doctor.

That's all, for now. Symptoms of depression, sluggish cognitive tempo, adhd(I), cfs, and influenza is a potent combo in reducing my productivity. >.< For those of you who are reading this and are in the same situation as me, vitamin C(ascorbic acid) and panadol(paracetamol) can help.

I know you are already going to get checked for adrenal fatigue but just wanted to note Vitamin C (esp w. bioflavionds) is one of the main ingredients in adrenal fatigue treatment

Bump. I have a lot of the same symptoms. I'm starting Adderall so I'll let you know how it goes..

Fuck those websites. Go look at Frangible/ATB's uber "negative symptoms of schizophrenia" + DHEA supplementation thread.

Are you a girl? I wouldn't take it if you're a girl.



Well, it's elevated in depressed people, probably as an attempt at a compensatory mechanism.

there was that study that showed magnolia bark increased DHEA

Glad to see a fellow teenager on this board, DeGenisis, let me know the results asap ok?

I'm not a girl, i'm a boy, sometimes my general tiredness is made worse(at least I think so)by masturbating to orgasm. Sometimes after I orgasm, I feel that I have become more tired. I didn't get shifts in tiredness before I discovered masturbation towards the end of age 15. Maybe due to masturbation my testosterone's low. Tried abstaining a few times for weeks. Once I abstained for more than a month(ard 2 months), and I think I get a little more energy,not sure whether this is a placebo effect too, but my slow thinking speed remains unchanged. Worth a mention.

As for depression, I don't feel the affective symptoms of depression as much as the underarousal symptoms. My mood can be high after listening to happy music or having happy events happen to me, and most of the time it's just a mild feeling of sadness. It's more the tiredness and sluggish thought symptoms that I've not been able to relieve.

I have, for now, tried neither the prozac/fish oils/magnolia bark. Fish oils I've tried before for iirc 1 month, forgot the amount, should be one bottle. I've just been too lazy to try them. I hope to get them cheap, and get them from an easily accessible place. I don't have enough money nor energy to buy things that may or may not work. I've been sticking to caffeine. Sometimes 1000mg vitamin C a day, with no noticeable results.

If only colloidal gold could solve this problem.



Anyway, really, all signs point to probably your best bet being an ADD psychostimulant.

You can always stop them down the line if you find a suitable alternative treatment.

Have you ever taken amphetamine or methylphenidate?

I have tried methylphenidate, but not amphetamine. 2 x 40mg methylphenidate(ritalin) capsules as samples twice on seperate days(meaning 2x40mg+2x40mg=160mg in all), I've tried(at age 15-16) They had some anorexic effects(slimming of the wrists which remained until this day), raised heartbeat and I thought my reaction time improved, and they increased my quality and quantity of ideas, but not by much. For example, I was doing some calculus(integration/differentaion iirc)didn't have a dramatic improvement, only a slight to moderate improvement-i.e. it was not effortless doing it,I still felt I had to exert some 'force'for my work to go in the direction i had intended it to go. Also, i think quantity of ideas improved but not so much quality(for eg when doing math went to tangents but not arriving at answers). I think i read somewhere that add(i)'s benefit more from amphetamine than methylphenidate since methylphenidate is just a reuptake inhibitor but amphetamine is an agonist?somehow i think my parents may not approve taking an adderall prescription...they're somewhat religious conservatives-esp. my dad( a bit erratic, random, unpredictable, paranoid,irrational, keeps criticizing me... i think a nontrivial part of my depression stems from him) ,although they didn't really oppose the prozac script...what to do?Another question is I didn't have trouble in sch from age 7,because it was easy,therefore i'm not so sure i fit the symptoms in the DSM-IV for add, so i'm not sure what the best course of action to take is. I've got to think this over a bit more.

Haha, collodial gold. Eating peanuts and listening to music to lift my mood a little now...they seem to work temporarily...I know these thoughts are a little somewhat incoherent. Talking to members in this forum seems to lift my mood ....thanks, really.

Amphetamine is an indirect releaser.

Srsly just go get an Adderall Rx... like your average person knows what it is anyway? To most people it'd be just another medication you're trying. For supps I'd recommend omega 3s, DHEA 50mg/d (taken in AM), St. John's Wort, multivitamin, cinnamon extract (cassia, aka fake cinnamon), chromium picolinate, aniracetam (depending on other stims).

Alternates to Adderall: MPH, bupropion, nicotine (patches, not tobacco!), ephedrine/caffeine to a lesser extent

As far as your parents go, so what? You can be legally Rx'd drugs without them. In fact, if you were diagnosed and they refused that you get treatment, that'd make for a quaint little news story that would probably get child protective services involved; I know for a fact there have been legal fights in the past initiated by schools when parents would not medicate their kid's ADD. Treating your medical problems is your right, and it is neglect for parents to oppose that. Even if they're Tom Cruise. You think every chick who get an abortion tells their parents?

Speaking of which, Christianity isn't Scientology. I'm sure you can find a few Biblical quips to support taking medication. Allah is the most merciful I hear, and approves of treating disease.

And yeah. Your environment prolly is contributing.



Sounds like you just need quality time at a shooting range together while chanting "USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!". Or you could always divert his attention when he's criticizing you by telling him what an outdated design the 1911 is and how the .45 GAP is better than the .45 ACP.

If that fails, I'll assume you all go to church together, and you can have a little talk with the pastor about how unpleasant your home life is and how it makes you feel and you don't know what to do, which will undoubtedly be followed up by a pastor-mediated family chat, and while not a guarantee of improving anything would probably keep poor behavior in check on everyone's part.



Orgasm raises prolactin which can suppress dopamine for a few hours. It also can deplete zinc and thus lower T... but longitudinal studies in humans don't show much in the way of negative effects, especially as studied on athletic performance. Look, unless you take it to a stupid excess, it's not the cause of anything here. Chew some nicotine gum and take a zinc supp afterwards, problem solved. Unless you have some sort of guilt complex due to the religious upbringing. Abstain if you desire, whatever works best for you.

Maybe it's not what you're dong that's the problem. Maybe it's what you're not doing-- having things to drive and compel you, working with others and not wanting to let them down, getting into a flow state with activities you enjoy, feeling you contribute. Connecting with others.

As the Qur'an says in Surah 103, "In time man is indeed in loss. Except for those who believe, do good works, and support one another with the truth and perseverance."

As the Bible says in some part I don't recall, "Arise! Wake up! Get out of bed. God's bright glory has risen for you."

And I do believe for the hindrance of sloth and torpor, Bodhidarma would recommend conversation with the wise, investigation of reality, proper posture, getting outdoors, meditation on energy and the image of bright white light, tireless unceasing effort, not overeating, and being resolved to not be in that mental state.

Bodhidharama would recommend him 'to be',Just,to be..

Sounds to me like all you need is more excitement in your life. How do you think you would feel if you had a hot assed girlfriend compared to how you feel now?

Kellyb: I don't know, I've never had a girlfriend before, I've had infatuation before but the feeling was not reciprocated. I think I'll get something that normalizes whatever i'm having, while others get manic, due to increased serotonic transmission. Constantly changing environments don't make having girlfriends easy. Maybe virtual ones? Lol. Virtual ones probably do not have the same benefits or intensities as the real ones.

zuper1: I've never understood the 'to be' part of Buddhist philosophy. I mean, aren't we all existing, being? Why be contented with just being?

Frangible:I agree the average person doesn't know what Adderall is, but my mum knows about addictive and non-addictive medicine, either from friends or reading. She needs to know that addictiveness is dependent on dose, the dose makes the poison and therapeutic doses possibly doesn't cause much harm. Yes, if I can't get Adderall, I might try to get Wellbutrin(bupropion)
I'd rather get rx'd drugs without being infamous, gaining notoreity, you get the idea. My dad is more opposed to the idea of medicine for psychiatric conditions than my mum, kind of like Tom Cruise, but maybe not so intense in the opposition.

I think maybe I've exaggerated my dad's not-so-good traits, then again, maybe not. When I posted that, it was one of those days. We don't go to church together, only occasionally, besides, I'm not a christian, i'm an agnostic, tending towards atheism, so going there is like a meaningless ceremony for me, even though that believing in 'G-d' probably helps with depression.

Briefly: think about Vyvanse? The official line is that it's much less abusable, so you can run with that. It'll be better than adderall anyway (although more expensive I assume), as it's dextroamphetamine.