im currently Cutting becuase its almost beach season and Im not using much in terms of drugs just some caffiene and coincidentally buproprion but it wasnt intended for that.
But anyways Once I get into the single digits in bodyfat (should be about 3 more weeks or so) I wanted to use either a low dose AI (.5mg armidex EOD) or a serm (reloxifene or tomaxifen at high doses) or possibly even both or get rid of some of the stubburn fat on my ass and shed some waterwieght
What do you guys think, AI or SERM or Both and at what doses.....
Or will it not even be worth the money ??
Also I want to mention I dont care about Sexual Side effects because I dont get any.....I mean Ive been on SSRI's and AI's and still am life fuck I wish i was less horny Id make way better decisions........only slightly concerned about my lipids (i already have LOW cholesterol like 100) and liver toxicity isnt that big of an issue becuase im not going to use anything for more than a few weeks at a time
ive used femara 25mg and armidex .5 EOD before and seemed to definatly shed some water wieght and look more vascular, I dont know if it really helped me lose fat though......And nolva 40mg seems to help me shrink the tissue under my nipples which AI's did not (pubertal gyno)
Full Version: Serms or AI's for fat loss when dieting
An AI would be expected to reduce estrogen related fat deposits, although females using AI's don't see such an effect. (Just posting lyle's thoughts on the subject, since I have none of my own 
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Yeah, I emailed Dave palumbo about this, and he said an AI would definatly be of help. and He reccomended Arimidex 1mG EOD but IDK if I trust his advice for natural athletes, If i was a juicer (kinda wish I could be but I cant unfortunatly) Id definatly do what he says but I dont think hes been natural ever besides mabye his first couple years of lifting.(according to his articles) Although he does know a bit about science.....Its still a debateable subject I guess.
He also said (not in his email, but in an article) that a SERM will help lose waterwieght but not do much for fat.
Id also like the effect of shrinkiing my gyno lumps....but even when they shrink to the size of a pea, my nips are still puffy and protruded so I guess im gonna have to get the surgery eventually before Im fully satisfied with my physique
He also said (not in his email, but in an article) that a SERM will help lose waterwieght but not do much for fat.
Id also like the effect of shrinkiing my gyno lumps....but even when they shrink to the size of a pea, my nips are still puffy and protruded so I guess im gonna have to get the surgery eventually before Im fully satisfied with my physique
Have you tried a SERM (raloxifene) with a dopamine agonist/anti-prolactin drug, such as bromo or caber, or even just vitex for the puffy nips/gyno?
this is about to blow up into the steroidal vs nonsteroidal AI debate which will lead into any other AI vs letro for gyno correction. Not to mention bromo vs. caber in general. Sigh... I love controversy.
Hell throw 11oxo into the mix, its been on my mind for a while now as nice pre-summer, pre-cycle supp
QUOTE(Jay Black @ Mar 24 2008, 02:03 PM) [snapback]467819[/snapback]
Have you tried a SERM (raloxifene) with a dopamine agonist/anti-prolactin drug, such as bromo or caber, or even just vitex for the puffy nips/gyno?
Ive tried a SERM but not in combo with a dopamine agonist......Im not sure how much Id want to do that considering I have OCD and that might exacerbate it
If cost is any consideration then letrozole is the way to go, read this
QUOTE
Open dose-finding study of a new potent and selective nonsteroidal aromatase inhibitor, CGS 20 267, in healthy male subjects.Trunet PF, Mueller P, Bhatnagar AS, Dickes I, Monnet G, White G.
Research and Development Department, CIBA-GEIGY Limited, Basel, Switzerland.
The aim of this open, dose-finding study was to evaluate the effects of single dose CGS 20 267, a new oral nonsteroidal aromatase inhibitor, on the inhibition of estrogen production and also on the production of adrenal and testicular steroids in healthy male subjects. Nine dose levels ranging from 0.02-30 mg and placebo were tested, each dose being given to 3 subjects only. A total of 18 subjects were included; 12 of them received 2 single administration, the remaining 6 were exposed only once to one of the 2 highest dose levels. A reduction in serum estrogen levels when compared to baseline was already observed after 2 h, reaching maximum suppression between 10 and 48 h after administration. After 24 h, a suppression of estrone levels by 60-85% from baseline was achieved with all tested doses. A reduction in estradiol levels by about 30% from baseline was observed at the lowest dose (0.02 mg). This reduction was further enhanced dose dependently to a maximum of about 90% from baseline at 24 h after administration of the highest dose (30 mg). With the higher doses (10 and 30 mg), estrogen suppression was maintained up to 3 days. A dose-dependent increase of testosterone, LH, and FSH was observed and was most pronounced in the 10- and 30-mg dose groups, which can be considered as a consequence of the long-lasting aromatase inhibition achieved with these high doses. No effect on serum cortisol and aldosterone levels was observed up to the highest dose. No clinically relevant changes were observed in blood chemistry and hematology tests. The systemic and subjective tolerability of CGS 20 267 was good at all doses. This study has shown that CGS 20 267 is a well tolerated, potent, selective, and long-acting inhibitor of the aromatase enzyme after single administration.
PMID: 8345034 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Full text
Research and Development Department, CIBA-GEIGY Limited, Basel, Switzerland.
The aim of this open, dose-finding study was to evaluate the effects of single dose CGS 20 267, a new oral nonsteroidal aromatase inhibitor, on the inhibition of estrogen production and also on the production of adrenal and testicular steroids in healthy male subjects. Nine dose levels ranging from 0.02-30 mg and placebo were tested, each dose being given to 3 subjects only. A total of 18 subjects were included; 12 of them received 2 single administration, the remaining 6 were exposed only once to one of the 2 highest dose levels. A reduction in serum estrogen levels when compared to baseline was already observed after 2 h, reaching maximum suppression between 10 and 48 h after administration. After 24 h, a suppression of estrone levels by 60-85% from baseline was achieved with all tested doses. A reduction in estradiol levels by about 30% from baseline was observed at the lowest dose (0.02 mg). This reduction was further enhanced dose dependently to a maximum of about 90% from baseline at 24 h after administration of the highest dose (30 mg). With the higher doses (10 and 30 mg), estrogen suppression was maintained up to 3 days. A dose-dependent increase of testosterone, LH, and FSH was observed and was most pronounced in the 10- and 30-mg dose groups, which can be considered as a consequence of the long-lasting aromatase inhibition achieved with these high doses. No effect on serum cortisol and aldosterone levels was observed up to the highest dose. No clinically relevant changes were observed in blood chemistry and hematology tests. The systemic and subjective tolerability of CGS 20 267 was good at all doses. This study has shown that CGS 20 267 is a well tolerated, potent, selective, and long-acting inhibitor of the aromatase enzyme after single administration.
PMID: 8345034 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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