How many of you use/agree with the opinion that someone can use opiates responsibly, say 1-3 days a week, to take the place of recreational alcohol.

Im aware of the negative endocrine effects(T,LH, FSH) but really lost my love for booze. I use on wednsday after 4pm, sat night and all day sunday. I consider myself very responsible (never been addicted to anything, cept smokin'). Ive done this for the last 6 mos, and have no cravings when I dont use. However, my tolerance has went up (possibly due to Kratom use as well), and im just wondering if anyone else does this, or thinks that this will definatly lead to addiction? Ive been poppin pills since I was 14 or so (22 now), but it was only maybe 2 days/month.

Also, any novel ideas on addiction prevention or possible euphoric recreational drugs (besides ganja) that would fit this schedule would be greatly appreciated.

PS, I can still get off on 15mg oral oxy, so a very minor tolerance.

I have heard of people easily using opiates once a week for long time frames without addiction. More than once a week might be difficult.

Once a week keeps tolerance away, so you get the full potential from opiates.

I think it just depends. IME, Ive taken them before 4-5 times a week, but it would only be at night (like you, instead of drinking or smoking). Problem is, over time, you start to like it more and more, as it is a mood enhancer (at least it was for me). Recently having a baby, Ive slowed down on smoking, as its too much work (ie, rolling, changing shirts after smoking, etc). So for me to take 1 or 2 pills, and drink a beer, was pretty convenient. I actually had some oxy I was taking for headaches that I got from my mother in law.

With all of that said, on the nights I didnt take it, Im fine, but miss the relaxing/warm feeling. One thing I never did was increase the amount I was taking (never took more than 2 per night (maybe 10-15 milligrams total). So I would never let it get past a certain point, as I dont want to become addicted, as in my opinion, it would become very easy for this to happen to some people. Ive since stop really fucking with it, and maybe on an occassion here or there, I may take one. It really comes down to if you can control it, or if you are going to end up increasing more and more (dosage and times per day you take it), and end up like the dude I saw on the new the other night, jumping over a Walgreens counter...trying to rob them for oxy's, and when he was running away and about to be tackled by employees and customers, was popping them in his mouth before he went down...not a good thing.

Can it be done? yes

Would I reccomend it?.....nope


Oddly enough Ive used Opiates 5 or 6 ( 10-20mg at a time) times in my life....and only once have I gotten a really true euphoric feeling.....other times I just got fucked up and anxious...or sick....dont take them on an empty stomach unless you want to vomit (you probably know this)

The one good experience I had a small meal then about an hour later my frenid offered me 1 7.5 mg vike and one 7.5 mg perc.......took 7.5 then 20mins later the other and I had waves of euphoria every minute....was anxious imbetween these waves though

It's a damn slippery slope, especially if you have a reliable source. That being said, I have a friend with a regular Rx that seems to have no problem going for weeks at a time without using. On the other hand, he can't seem to keep away from carisoprodol (Soma) or alprazolam (Xanax).

I rarely use loperamide and quite responsibly at that.

I've been using pretty regularly for the last 2-3 years, I think it's all highly personal. Whenever I have had a reason to stop, whether that be a drug test, or an important day coming up, I have stopped. Stopped everything infact. Responsible drug use is considered a myth by so many, because to be frank, so many are fucked up. Sorry, but some can just use, but most will abuse. Where do you fall?

My favorite. Makes my day a whole lot less shitty.

I, too, have been a regular user for the past 2 years due to a variety of injuries. I'll admit, though, that there are many times when I could get by with nothing but find an excuse to down a few Lortabs. The past year in particular has been one of extreme productivity, both at my job and in the gym. I've also given up drinking, which carried with it all types of baggage. If I noticed my training and/or work quality to take a dive for the worse, though, I'd be quick to rethink my lifestyle.

You might not want to hear this, but multiple times a week is way too much for most people. It might work out for a little while, but it's not a good plan for the long run. Before you know it you'll be spending all your time either high, or thinking about your next high. As time goes by (it might take a few years), you'll start to get withdrawal symptoms after using. If you're still doing it multiple times a week, you'll be spending all your time either high or sick.

If you're going to use stronger opiates recreationally - oxycodone, hydromorphone, morphine, diacetylmorphine (heroin - snorting heroin isn't THAT much stronger than snorting oxy), it's best to just use them occasionally. Once every 2 or 3 months is best, or once a month tops. If you're thinking to yourself "I can't wait a whole month", you might already have a problem.

Also, you might need opiates someday for medical reasons. It's best to keep tolerance at a minimum in case you ever really need them for pain. You might have a minor tolerance now, but it's only going to go up over time with regular use.

When I use my productivity and creativity goes through the roof. Like "I wanna write my congressman" shit. This is when I have the hidden motivation to make big things happen.

It makes me very sociable and talkative. I could go for a month, but I might not love it. Hmm. Ill try the next month with just occasional (like 3x a day) Kratom. Im addicted to that.

In fact, while im rambling not making any sense, I just realized I barely like the feeling any more. Just the routine, and the thought of the feeling I never get.

This will give me the motivation to stack M1t and superdrol, so if I take ANYTHING that even remotely fucks with the liver, I will surely die. (but be hyoooge)


I vote this as the most worthless post of the year. Fuckin ADD.

Having recently gotten out of a hospital for pancreatitis, I can see why morphine is so addictive.

You do not want to build an opiate tolerance from recreational use, because if you ever wind up in the ER in pain, you're screwed.

i think three times a week might be a bit much... since the signs aren't as obvious, many start down this road and rationalize more frequent usage and/or ultimately develop some tolerance. i wouldn't recommend any more than low/moderate doses once a week if this will be an ongoing thing.

I did use buprenorphine about 1-2 per week and did not feel the urge to redose.

Opiods are alright but if I take them without stims I´m left nodding off and not very functional.
While recreational use of opiods are addictive you´ll be suprised at the clinical use - like half a percent chance of addiction/habituation.

I never used more than 0,8 mg which seemed plenty to me.

Oh and do check the half-life of your opiod of choice + look into Memantine.

It's a nmda antogonist, so it's similar to dextromethorphan right? Would this be more akin to Promethazine or DXM when mixed with an OP? The latter turns it trippey, while the former more body loaded and nod-offish.

I've always wondered what's the difference in subjective effects between different opioids. Anyone?

No judgment here D, just pure idle curiosity, what percentage of a typical week do you spend under the influence?

Well I already fucked the month up. Free drugs will do that to a guy. Anybody know where I can score some H???

There's lots of fun stuff out there besides opiates. It's possible to avoid issues with tolerance and addiction by rotating among different sorts of drugs. I used to get high pretty much every weekend on something or other, without using opiates more than once a month or so. That might not be the healthiest lifestyle in general (I've slowed down a lot in recent years), but that seems like it might be a better choice than using hard drugs (opiates) on a regular basis.

All the stronger ones share a similar kind of body high and euphoria, at least for me. When I get to the point where I'm nodding off (I usually take a mild stimulant to help stay awake), all warm and fuzzy and comfortable in bed or on the couch, I get to a similar sort of mental state on any of the stronger opiates / opioids. There are some subjective differences, though.

codeine / dihydrocodeine - These were mildly fun, once upon a time. A sort of permanent tolerance kicks in once you start using stronger opiates, though, so these do pretty much nothing for me now. Mild pain relief maybe, but no euphoria.

hydrocodone (vicodin, lortab, etc.) - This was my introduction to the world of stronger opioids. It's not as good now as it was at first, but the overwhelming euphoria I got when I first started with vicodin was just as strong as any opiate / opioid euphoria I've experienced since. Now that I've tried stronger stuff, hydrocodone isn't as good as it used to be. Still fun though.

oxycodone (percocet, oxycontin) - One of the strongest oral opioids I've taken. You get more of a rush if you crush and snort them (oxycontin, not percocet as it's got too much acetaminophen / filler). Some of the others I've tried have lost some of their "magic" over the years, despite my infrequent use, but oxy is still almost as good now as it was when I first tried it.

hydromorphone (dilaudid) - Possibly the strongest and most euphoric overall rush I've felt from an opioid, although it's much shorter lasting than oxycodone. Needs to be crushed and snorted (or injected, which I won't do) since oral bioavailability is poor.

fentanyl - Possibly the strongest overall body feeling, but with less euphoria and happiness than some of the others. The lollipops come on very fast; it's dangerous to leave one in your mouth for long if you don't have a tolerance. A buddy of mine used to get the 600 mcg lollipops, which for me would be an overdose if I ate the whole thing. One lollipop could get me high several times.

morphine - Very strong, also has a "pins and needles" sort of feeling on your skin. I've had several occasions where I was nodding off on the couch, naked, and I kept thinking I'm under a comfy wool blanket. Slightly tingly and scratchy in a warm and comfortable sort of way. It needs to be snorted (or injected, which I won't do) to get the full effects.

diacetylmorphine (heroin) - One of the strongest I've tried. It's hard to judge the right dose when the purity is unknown, so on the few occasions I've done it I've snorted small amounts at a time until I get to where I want to be. It lasts too long, and it always leaves me feeling "not right" afterwards. Possibly due to the long duration of the euphoric effects. I don't know if I'll do it again.

poppy pods (or opium) - One of my favorites, easily available, also one of the strongest I've tried. Poppies actually contain dozens of opioid alkaloids of varying half lives, including morphine, codeine, thebaine, and several others. Smoking opium is interesting, to say the least. Grinding / eating opium poppy pods can get you the same effects, just much slower and much longer acting. Eating the pods can last a little too long, actually. I'd need at least a 3 or 4 day weekend to recover from a strong dose. Poppy pod tea can get you the same effects with a shorter duration, although it's one of the nastier drinks you'll ever have to taste.

I don't think there is a single substance that I am unable to use responsibly. Its relatively easy to just get your kicks another way when you want to not take a specific substance. For opiods I think that Demerol is the strongest oral I've tried (buddy had some syrup from jaw surgery).

Anyone tried oxymorphone?

I personally never used opioids (except lame codeine) and would probably fall in love with them if they were available to me. But they seem to be the perfect substitute (or second perfect GHB being first) to ethanol (which I'm really tired off, only makes me zombish, screws up body comp, does not really lower inhibition/make me social unless taken in amounts that makes me a total dumb fuck, etc...).

Yeah but it´s a peculiar NMDA antagonist. I haven´t noticed much difference except there seem to be less tolerance.

It increases the dissociative effects of alcohol though (confirmed in human studies at clinical dose).

It´s not nearly as potent as DXM. On a side note there has been a handful deaths reported to DXM use here (Sweden) - mostly kids (like 17 year olds).

Poppies are easy to grow. If you are in the north, now is a good time to plant them. In warmer climes, you want to wait until fall to sow the seeds. You can get seeds from the grocery store but to make sure you have the right seeds, get them from ebay or elsewhere. Your first crop will provide unlimited seeds.

I never cared much for opiates. I've still got part of a prescription for pain from over 10 years ago. I guess I'm not hooked.

If you want a cheap, safe, and relatively non-addictive alternative to alcohol, I would recommend soma.

Soma is alright, but to me it's not that much fun anymore. I used to think it was good along with alcohol. Now it mostly just makes me feel tired and sleepy. For relatively non-addictive alcohol alternatives (non-addictive compared to opiates, at least), I'd recommend GHB, neurontin, lyrica, phenibut, or cannabis.

All this talk of GHB and GBL have piqued my interest, but unfortunately it is nowhere to be found via the usual channels. Must not be popular enough.

A good portion. No really though, it's generally just a puff of bud at night, and 2-3 nights of obliteration for the weekend. I cycle everything I do. I get sick of AAS, I cycle off. I get sick of Alcohol, I grab opiates for a second. Or benzos, or some Acid. It seems like a lot, but I rarely get loaded during the day, and that keeps shit pretty mellow. That, and hangovers of any kind are pretty frowned upon by myself, so I know my limits. It's taken a few years, but I know them well. 4 years of moderate use and never have I once been addicted to anything more than nicotine.

End off topic rant/

m314, Great info on those opiates, it seems to be a really good overview ime.

Thanks.

Hey no problem Ben, you strike me as a Scotch type of guy, so if you're ever in the SoCal area...

This is totally true. Especially when (not if) you get hooked. If you get but on bupe maintaince and say, crash a street bike hard, hold on to the hospital bed rails because your in for a ride. I am sure there are some people out there who can use them "responsibly" whatever that means, but even once a week and your tolerance WILL go up, and way faster than you can ever imagine. Opiates are evil like that.

Once you get to a certain point (years of abuse) they won't do ANYTHING but make you feel normal. Like anything else that shines it will fade. IE: The amount of opiates it would take for me to get a slight buzz and the amount that will induce CNS depression to the point of death, for me, is almost microscopic. Towards the end I could chew two or three 100mug fentanyl patches or shoot three bags in one shot, and feel almost nothing. I can't play with Mr. Brownstone anymore .

To me the physical withdrawal pales in comparision to short circuiting your reward system like that. After the shakes, sweats and shits are gone comes massive depression. I already had an extreme personality before I started, now it almost seems impossible to find a happy medium. Things I see that make other people ecstatic make me shrug with indifference, and that is the saddest aspect to opiate receptor agonism IMHO. Be careful.

This is at the core of what I believe to be THE most persuasive argument against recreational use of opiates. Its too bad they don't talk about this aspect of drug use with kids, instead of telling them they might have a heart attack the first time they use and other nonsense. The truth resonates more powerfully than scare tactics.

As I sit here recovering from severe abdominal pain and diarrhea, allow me to say...

lol.

I think the problem arises from the mu receptors (which include the subreceptors mu1, mu2, mu3). The mu receptors give rise to euphoria and more importantly respiratory depression(from mu2). But that doesn't mean sigma, kappa, or delta receptors aren't involved in pleasure. Working with those receptors is a safer option as they do not cause respiratory depression. Fortuantely, dhea is a potent agonist of sigma-1, which can give you a lift without risking addiction or tolerance.

here's a very nice study on pubmed:

Word. If fucking DARE would have told me "Nothing will make you happy ever if you take these pills for awhile" instead of lying out their fucking ass with the Reefer Madness type shit, I might have looked into myself and saved a decade of pain.

I have to look into DHEA. I thought I read awhile back that it could be conterproductive to the HPTA or some shit, but that was a while ago and my memory is shit. I know I have read negative things though, but fuck it, I'll pop some and see for myself.

What agonizing sigma-1 probably does, in my opinion, is buffer overexcitation, primarily of glutamate.

This allows healing.