I started using GBL sporadically in place of alcohol while going out around two months ago and was impressed.

As of a week ago I've been experimenting with dosing a mL after work on some nights when I go to the gym.By the end of the work day I generally loathe the world.Thus,altering my disposition or just numbing myself via drug use is of the utmost importance to me.

A mL intoxicates me but I am still fully functional and ironically,able to lift very heavy weights with as much intensity as if I were very aggravated with much worry and strung out on CNS stimulants.Instead my mood is almost carefree and overall,am in relatively good spirits.

I drank a light beer right before entering the gym earlier tonight and the intoxication was intensified with no hinderance on performance.

I set a PR with deadlifting a couple nights ago while buzzed and giggling between sets.The two sessions since then have been on the same level.

beer and then working out?
beer and gbl... not the safest combination.
hmmmm..

Listen to SupremeDan on this, if you have GBL, make GHB. DOn't do straight GBL.

Not safe?

Yeah,if you happen to be a flit.

Yeah I know,I've just been too lazy to get around to converting it to GHB.

This might be just me, but I've gotten some severe exertional headaches from lifting on gbl / ghb. This happened on a few different occasions, all while I was straining with heavy weights. The last time the headache lasted a couple weeks, even though I didn't use any more g in that time period. The headaches haven't come back since I quit mixing g and weightlifting (~8 years ago).

I hardly ever take it anymore, but I do remember light cardio was a lot of fun on g. Long walks late at night in particular. Bike riding was fun too, if slightly dangerous.

Not to say that everybody who uses Gbl on a daily basis becomes addicted, but I guess (I can only guess about this, since I have to hard evidence to support it) many of those that become addicted end up that way because of everyday usage. Nonetheless, benzos are also addictive and it's quite usual to use them on a daily basis with no major problem quitting if you taper down. I'm speaking of low-doses here, since taking a lot of benzos everyday, just like those crazy people that take 200mg of diazepam and things like that, can only lead to disaster. Some people consider benzo withdrawal to be even worse than opiate withdrawal.

In any case, I don't think a drug like G is so useful and pleasurable. On the one hand, getting comatose sleep for 4 hours and then waking up being unable to get asleep again, can be a real pain in the ass, since, even if you wake up refreshed, a few hours later you feel the complete lack of sleep and are just too tired to do anything useful. On the other, as far as recreational use is concerned, feeling the initial drunk-like high for 30-60 minutes (which is not that great either when compared to far better recreational psychoactive substances, by the way) and then feeling completely wasted and sleepy scores 6/10 at most in the recreational scale. I believe low-dose benzodiacepine to be more useful, since you can get 6-8 hours of good quality sleep, wake up refreshed and not feel very tired the rest of the day (like you would feel if you sleep 4 hours on G).

In any case, it's clear that different people experience different reactions to the same compound and you are having a good experience with this, finding it useful in order to workout. Perhaps it's just that the G feeling is completely new for you and you feel it greater than it really is and, in a matter of time, you will just loathe it. It's very interesting how some people, with repeated use of a given drug, end up completely tired of the effects and don't feel like taking it anymore, just like when you taste a new food and think it's great... only to end up loathing it after eating it everyday for a period of time. Others just become addicted, which would be the opposite reaction, so I think it's impossible to apply the same rule to everybody.

As far as mixing G with alcohol is concerned, they told you not to do so because it can be extremely dangerous. Most of the deaths related to G are the result of mixing it with alcohol. Anyway, you seem to have found empirically what dose of G you can take so that mixing it with ONLY one beer provides the desired effects. Anyway, be very careful with that, for I cannot stress enough how dangerous the G+ethanol mix can be. Mixing benzos and G is also dangerous.

Colin.


Watch yourself man.


You've been a part of this family for way too long now not to have me cringe at the thought of you writing a post in a few months about how miserably hooked you are on that stuff and it always starts with an innocent post about taking just a little to take the edge off each weekend.

.

And then progresses to another slightly less innocent post about also taking it on week nights after work to "alter loathsome disposition or just numb oneself via drug use"....

If he confines his use to just once a day, he could take GBL(or its cousins GHB, 14BDO) indefinitely. You are not going to get addicted if you take a 1ml to 3ml dose every evening and if you do like I do and completely abstain from any alcohol your going to do your body good in the long-run. You only run into problems with multiple redosing throughout the day, everyday. Then your going to have some severe addiction and withdrawal problems.

I think you are correct in a theoretical sense, however, in practice it depends on your ability to stay on the right side of the arbitrary lines you draw in the sand. For example, it begins with: "I'll only use it once a week." That is quickly overcome with some rationalization to allow both Friday and Saturday night usage. So you retreat, and draw a new line in the sand: "I'll only use on weekends"... that line is crossed in no time with more rationalization. You retreat again, and draw a new arbitrary line: "Its alright to use sometimes during the week if I had a rough day".... generally this progression continues until eventually some undesirable consequence forces an interruption. Its really only a question of how long you will defend each of your arbitrary lines before abandoning it that dictates the time line.

Maybe you can maintain your arbitrary "I'll only use one per evening" line with vigilance for a long period of time. Or maybe temptation combined with clever rationalization will undermine your will and require that you retreat again. Such are the games we play with these substances.

Funk, I think it really depends on the individuals will power. Not everyone has problems like that. A bit of projection maybe?

Its fine to remind people of this possibility, but its not what happens to everyone.

EDIT: Only I dont think the lines are arbitrary, they are set for good reasons.

I began by saying "it depends on your ability to stay on the right side of the arbitrary lines you draw in the sand" which is synonymous with willpower. We are in agreement then.

I completely agree. However, I'd like to add that such are the games people play with this substances and with everything else in life (substance or not), given the condition that it produces pleasure feelings. However, with G, when one goes past certain threshold (1-2x daily for instance) there comes a point where physical addiction takes place too. I think that a better comparison with the "as it happens with everything else in life" could be found in amphetamines: they are not physically addictive but they create such pleasurable effects (both intrinsically and because of the higher productivity one reaches with them, which is psychologically addictive in intself) that it takes willpower not to use them more and more... and this would be EXACTLY what happens with any action (gambling, sports, sex, racing, love, computer games, fast food, ...) we like to do in our lives: it takes willpower not to do it more and more often until the point of overdoing it. The bottom line is that this "be careful with substance X, since you can end up completely fucked up and addicted, I wouldn't use that if I were you" should be applied to everything else in life that:

1) Produces pleasure.
2) Puts you at injury or health risks.

What happens is that with usual psychologically addictive actions that most people do very often there's not the same degree perception of "danger", "risk" or "addiction" as there is with psychoactive substances. That's the point where most people, instead of thinking by themselves, let their brains be completely "washed" by mass media drug propaganda and the social stigma they have been educated to believe in, just like when one is educated to believe in God and accepts this without any rational questioning whatsoever.

This is not to say that escalating addiction to a psychoactive substance (or to anything that can put one's health at risk) is not a problem. It is. What I am trying to say is that the "you are very likely to end up fucked if you use that substance - whatever it may be" statement is far from true. I think that most of the people who become addicted to a substance do so because they use that substance as a means of passive suicide; that is, behind their abuse more than a desire to get the pleasurable feeling itself there is a self-destructive purpose. That's why most people can get away with doing usual risky actions without ending up completely screwed: there's not a social stigma associated to that action (or substance... for instance, caffeine) and therefore they don't seek its repetition with self-destructive purposes, but for the intrinsic pleasure of doing it itself.

The man who was hospitalized with liver problems not too long ago is now using pre-workout beers for his Havoc cycle. Glad to see you've learned something. Be sure to tell BrooklynJuice we all said 'hi'.

Ouch.

GBL recently came into my life as well, and I have to say it went from crazy good times full of long nights of redosing, to a single shot of 2ml. It fast becomes a dirty high, messing with your gut, your sleep, and what comes out of your mouth. I was a huge fan at first, as were my friends, but now I have to say it ain't all that great. The thought of lifting on the shit seems ridiculous, but to each his own

I don't cross these "lines", as you put them, because I view these substances as another supplement, like my mult-vitamin, protein, etc. I don't see myself slowing ramping up my multi-vitamin dose per day because I'm at the optimal dose. Same with 1,4 BDO, or its cousins. Self-control is the key, but then again I thought that was obvious.

So right off the bat, you began taking GBL or 1,4 BDO on a daily basis with the intent that it would be a daily supplement like a multivitamin? That seems a little odd. Usually there would have been an initial period of less frequent, recreational use that eventually became daily use after finding various reasons (that seem perfectly good and logical to the user) to use more often. Just to be clear though, I fully understand that some people are capable of sustaining a given usage pattern indefinitely without escalating.

When I talk about a progression of increased use that generally continues until an undesirable consequence forces an interruption, often this will be something like adverse health effects (gut problems, sleep problems like D-termine described), financial difficulty, etc. I did not mean that everyone who uses addictive/euphoric substances is doomed to develop an addiction because clearly that is not the case.

Out of curiosity, what physical or mental health benefits do you attribute to your daily use of GBL (an optimal dose of course) that merits the interesting comparison to a multivitamin?

I did a lot of research before I chose to use this stuff(as I do everything). I chose to use this instead of alcohol for mood uplift and for the HGH increase during sleep. I don't use it everyday, but I've gone periods of daily use for a couple of months. From my understanding of what I've read, a once daily dose in the range I specified above will have no negative effects whatsoever. That coupled with the postive effects I was looking for I saw/see no downside. I can't say the same for alcohol, as I can easily turn a 2 beer night into a 12pack night with the guys and suffer the consquences the next day and beyond.

I'm sorry, I read about the benefits it has on sleep, and not ONE of my friends sleeps well on it at ALL. Don't fool yourself. If I can manage to get to sleep after the manic comedown, however long and deep it may feel, I am never fresh the next day. That said, I sure wish I wasn't so lazy and had converted it.

You misunderstand me. I'm not taking it to go to sleep. If I take it is around 7pm. I won't try to go to sleep until aroun 11pm or midnight. I never have a problem sleeping, but then again I don't try to sleep on it right after I take it.

Also, I mainly take 1,4 BDO. I was never able to get a good feel for GBL as far as dosage. I know that 1.0ml of GBL(pure) is 1.6ml of GHB(pure), but it always seemed hit or miss on the feeling I got. On 1,4 BDO which is a 1:1 ratio with GHB I know exactly what I will feel on any given amount, most likely due to my much greater experience with it over GBL.

For beneficial sleep use, it's meant to be taken immediately before you lay down to go to bed. Taking it several hours before won't produce the same effect.

I've said it in the past, GBL sleep is not real sleep. Sleep architecture does not remain in tact and you will remain sluggish throughout the day (especially if you have redosed in the middle of the night.) Has anyone noticed the lack of dreams you get from GBL? Or the feeling of anxiousness that arises after waking from a GBL sleep.

Isn't GBL comparable to phenibut in most ways?

Well, my withdrawal from phenibut is probably the worst drug related experience in my life, and I have used everything from pot to meth to mdma to opiates to steroids. In other words, thread carefully.

I aprreciate the sentiment John but I'm not worried about addiction and such.

On the contrary,it is actually healthy (GH promotion) when used sparingly,as I am going about things with it.I'm not using it ED either and as far as Odium's commentary......eh,erroneous.

I did not use it (nor alcohol) pre w/o,while on a Havoc cycle and I have been taking antioxidants along with it for that matter.I would and will however use it in place of alcohol when I start my upcoming AAS/PH cycle but plan on converting it to GHB beforehand.I've done enough careless shit WRT my health in the past to put myself into a similiar situation as I was in last year.

As I see it,GHB/GBL is the only recreational drug which also has a myriad of health benefits,in lieu of fat gain and what not one inevitably gets from alcohol or marijuana.The fine print however,or stipulation if you prefer,being that you have to keep a tight lid on its usage.As I see it people get fucked up from it when attempting to use it for social anxiety and/or as a sleep aid on a daily basis.Granted,it certainly relives anxiety but I'm not using it ona steady basis for that purpose and it certainly does not make me the least bit sleepy so using it for insomnia is a non issue anyway.

Colin, I really don't think one can equate GBL with GHB. I made that mistake and consumed a lot of straight GBL, which caused me problems that GHB never did. Please just go ahead, go to a soap making website, get some NaOH and make the damn stuff, it is SOOOOO EASY.