I didnt want to hijack another threat about this so I figured I would start a new one. Well, who has used OTC HC as a cheap means of combating adrenal fatigue (for occasional use)? A couple of members have said they eat the cream and have had positive results. Has anyone done this?

After lynx's experience I was comfortable enough to experiment with it. I could only find 0.5% concentration so I opted to run 5mg instead. It actually worked surprisingly well. Nothing seemed to stress me out while on, but I wasn't euphoric with joy either. I did get some GI discomfort after a couple days and decided to just go TD from then on. Transdermal route seems to work decently with a couple grams of the cream. It's definitely a cheap OTC adaptogen that I will use again in the future. It also increases sensitivity to stimulants, so that's a plus.

Thanks for the feedback! I went out and got a tube of my own that I will be trying in the morning. I comsume tons of caffeine/yohimbine/PWO supps, so I really could use some extra cortisol.

you eat the cream? . why not get synthetic G tabs?

second... I don't know, it sounds moronic way to deal with "adrenal fatigue". adrenal fatigue goes away with rest. most people's adrenals are fine, its their brain that's fucked from stim abuse.

I just started with the HC cream orally today. It got rid of the tired feeling I constantly have within about 20 minutes. My constant fidgeting of my legs also seemed to relax.

I took three 1/5 teaspoons of 0.5% cream. Does anyone know what the actual dose on this is? My scale is broken.



liorrh: Stim abuse is certainly a cause of AF, but for many people stress/anxiety combined with the stress of workouts is the cause. After years of anxiety, the road to recovery from AF is a long one, even if you have totally removed all stresses. Cortisol replacement is often the only way to help.

Addison's disease can not be cured with rest. Alot of folks have naturally low cortisol levels, and because of that resort to abusing stims, which only worsens the problem.

I tried it off and on with decent success, but it was really hard to judge the half life so sometimes I still find myself with an awful crash due to super low cortisol. How long would somebody with mild adrenal fatigue have to use Hydro-cortisone before their adrenals would recover? Assuming that patient withheld all stimulant use but maintained their somewhat stressful life/work?

If somebody does try eating the cream, one suggestion: Go with the Aloe Vera type, it tastes much better and you might be able to derive some benefit from ingesting the Aloe Vera.

Palo Alto's Reset A.D. is a really good supplement. Also using bulk Licorce root works well too. The best combo I found to work was a 50 mg DHEA+a "gob" of HC + 500mg Licorice root. The most pronounced effect I had was actually feeling warm, which is how I would gauge that my stack was wearing off. I am hypothyroidic and people with low cortisol tend not to convert T4 (in my case levothyroxine) into the active T3 form. Cortisol is needed somewhere in the conversion, but also too much cortisol cuts off T4 production. Now I just make my life easier by using Armour thyroid extract. (which my doctor still refuses to prescribe!)

they work buy opposing mechanisms and may counter each other's effect.

Licorice stimulates the conversion of cortisone to cortisol and ups the ratio of active Cortisol to inactive Cortisone
DHEA provides more substrate for cortisol production in the adrenals and has mixed signals on CRH via its abolishing of both 11-b-hsd in the liver.
but oral HC will shut down GC production in teh adrenals from DHEA via CRH inhibition.
I suspect the good effects you have are from the DHEA's intrinsic effects.

This topic of oral HC interests me a great deal, i think frangible was talking about that.

PS "natural low cortisol" is bullshit and the use demonstrated above reeks of abuse and brotilligence. but you know that already. I am certainly experienced in the things I tell myself to convince myself of substance abuse and your assorted ramblings sound the same to a T. so why don't we gather our collective brain muscle and find a safe, effective way to use this route.

What the hell are you talking about? In your little PS rant, you are just rambling on and all your post does is show what a condescending little turd burglar you are. I would harldly qualify using HC cream as substance abuse. Its funny how 90% of the posts on this forum are posted by people using medications that they dont need and that isn't prescribed to them and you have the nerve to hijack this thread with your retarded ass rant about HC cream. You are not a scientist and I don't think many people on here or any forum are. You are a dork....alone...at your computer. So stop hijacking unless you have something constructive to say.

I just want to say that I only eat HC cream about once a month--when I know that I have taxed my CNS with aggressive stim use. It was just a whacky idea that I tried, and it worked.

I just found a cheap source for Cortef, if anyone wants it, PM me.

I don't recall saying anything about prescriptions. this kind of attitude is uncalled for, as original poster purposing such method claimed himself his regimen is based on a hunch. me being a scientist or a dork got nothing to do with the validity my claims and points. its funny but your adjectives summarized you to a T. projection is a nasty bitch.

judging from the assumptions about my nature and intent, sounds like a man on too much stimulants, side effects include rage episodes and negatively interpreting social contexts. but who knows.

I use HC cream for itches, it's great for that. I never noticed any relaxing effects. Anyone use it transdermally and if so, how much do you need for effects? How long does it take?

No sources at all--that included PMs.

Black Flag, go easy please.

how much do you "Eat" and how long do subjective effects last?

what was your reasoning for this regimen?

It is not a regimen, i use 1 gram of 1% when I feel I need some extra cortisol. It was just a quick and dirty way to get some cortisol that came to mind one day. The effect is just what I would expect from a boost in cortisol, so maybe it is entirely placebo. What I get is the equivalent of a stim, physical well being, reduced fatigue,increased ability to deal with stress--everything cortisol is expected to do and has been reported to do --minus euphoria.

Thanks! I'm very interested in possible applications of this.

Continuing in the therapeutic potential of oral HC:


indeed. but MOST of the time, subjective burnout feelings occur while free cortisol and and DST tests come out normal. (some users have posted this, including me and RAS).
what really happens is a shift in the hypothalamic HPA setpoint. this, as I alluded to, is what is subjectively referred to "Adrenal burnout" more often than not.

Here's what I think happens(how we got there is a diferrent issue)

fucked up GR/MR ratio coupled with changes in CRH pulsatile secretions and inflammtory circadian rythm.
Normally, inflammation peaks at about 1 AM(tnf-a levels) (or earlier) and Cortisol peaks at 9 AM or earlier. OTOH, CRH is essentially inversed. that is the normal state of things.

since both are dependent to some degree (with latency)on blood sugar levels, arousal, activity and other factors and on each other, when they are perturbed as I purpose, they are not inversley correlated anymore.
CRH still has a peak in the morning although blunted because the delay in inflammation peak, but you still have hypo and arousal, so its still up. fucked GR/MR ratio means that resulting released morning cortisol will blunt cortisol release too much. so you will still be foggy, even tough some inflammation will subside. come late evening, arousal, feeding patterns, coupled with lack of daily CRH negative feedback will spike CRh, preventing inflammation to ramp back up to its nightly peak and delaying this peak.

So you have:
morning:normal cortiosl but high inflammation, resulting in drowsiness
during the day:low cortisol, normal inflammation, resulting in drowsiness
evening: CRH starts to rise but still no cortisol response.
night: relatively high cortisol, low inflammation, resulting in poor sleep

as you can see, CFS sufferers have normal DST resuts if you look only at morning, but the effects last way too long. this is because of the GR/MR ratio.






some anecdotal evidence on high CRH:




Something Frangible said caught my attention

from http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.p...272&hl=PTSD


I've been told that people that don't know me find me a little intimidating because of my body language, for instance when I go "WHAT WAS THAT?" if I didn't hear what someone said. they skulk and say something and I just don't get why they are frightened. that's funny as hell to me because I wouldn't harm most creatures (I would harm a fly though. on occasion). I was not sure where I got that body language.

Ofcourse, in the context of hyper CRH/low cortisol, it all makes sense.

this is why regular morning DST sucks balls. if you have DSPS

Some backing for said hypothesis

Endocrine Care
Hypothalamo-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis Dysfunction in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and the Effects of Low-Dose Hydrocortisone Therapy
A. J. Cleare, J. Miell, E. Heap, S. Sookdeo, L. Young, G. S. Malhi and V. O’Keane

intersting is the comparison of the responders and non-responders to HC treatment.

encocrine values before the treatment

Responders (n = 9) Nonresponders (n = 23)
hCRH test
Basal ACTH (pg/ml) 91 ± 28 94 ± 41
AUC ACTH (pg/ml·h) 39 ± 23 24 ± 35
Basal cortisol (nmol/liter) 541 ± 255 482 ± 188
AUC cortisol (nmol/liter·h) 136 ± 353 214 ± 182
24-h UFC (nmol/d) 120 ± 53 99 ± 54

as you can see, responders had higher cortisol levels but lower AUC.
non responders had lower ACTH AUC. this could important because it means that probably their adrenals were more sensitive to ACTH which could be related to peripheral inflammatory and RAS signaling status or other factors synergizing with ACTH to determine cortisol output, for instance available substrate (DHEA)

I retract my statement and apologize. I just felt you were being condescending in some of your previous posts.

Um, I think I just got addicted to this. Fast, cheap..really quick way to get some energy...but I know I can't keep taking it. It's unnatural. I remember my doc giving me some prednisone for my back a while back and day 1 was 5 tabs day 2 4 tabs day 3 3 tabs day 4 2 tabs and day 5 1 tab. This makes me think that it's not good to go on and off really quickly. Any input?

Be careful.

Prednisone is too potent of a corticosteroid for what we're trying to accomplish. Once weekly hydrocortisone seems ideal as it will not cause adrenal suppression which can lead to hypocorticism apon withdrawl. In prednisone's case, the hypocorticism from drug abruption can be fatal. That's why you're told to taper down. Staying on Pred too long can dangerous aswell for obvious physical reasons that scare bb.com members.

Damn you lynx! I'm throwing away the tube. Now what will I do if my ass itches?

It's catabawlik, LOLZ

Exogenous cortisteroids will suppress natural production so going off quickly can be a problem.

I just dropped IsoCort after about a month of taking it. Will I die? Or similar?

what other side effects are possible?
and is 7-keto going to have any benefit for normal cortisol levels?
thanks

7-keto lowers cortisol.

Time released Vitamin C, 3-5000 mg/day is helpful for cortisol. Sleep, food and exercise are most important.

From the studies I've read, cortisol seems to be more of an anti-stress hormone (released in response to stress) than a stress hormone per se. So that seems congruent with the idea you're essentially putting part of the anti-stress response in pill form. (insert disclaimer about avoiding excessive worry/anxiety entirely here)



Liorrh,

I remember in the past you disagreed with my theories on amphetamine/cortisol being used therapeutically in the context of PTSD, which bears some similarities to CFS. If you changed your mind, did you find any definitive human data that did so or something?

Frange, I still don't know about amps. cortisol is another thing. why? because I now look at agents as down stream as possible. I haven't looked at amps enough, but my reservation still holds.
that said,
in lieu of my recent research of the hypothalamus and dynamical systems, I've realized that some populations, including a subtype of CFS/PTSD/DSPS may benefit from cortisol replacement therapy.

I'm still gathering my thoughts together on the subject, so to define those subgroups exactly.

in short, yes, you convinced me:-)

any other vitamins/minerals/supplements that i can use for cortisol?
my diet, exercise, sleep patterns are normal.

Liorrh, check this out:

http://www.webmd.com/chronic-fatigue-syndr...atigue-syndrome

I don't see adrenal suppression a problem if your goal is cortisol REPLACEMENT.

Similar to ADD/depression, CFS is a longterm condition. You're fine as long as you continually treat the symptoms. Not to mention, most CFS patients already have adrenal fatigue. I hate it when doctors give advice on conditions that aren't their specialty... like say, endocrinology?

Cite? adrenal fatigue is defined as unresponsiveness to ACTH, AFAIK.

take the cream on empty or full stomach?

according to http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginf...er/a682206.html
Take hydrocortisone with food or milk.