im 19 about 170-175 pounds and im tired of being skinny. so, im just getting into working out and i have been looking into prohormones and some supplements and i could really use some help. i looked into Phera-mass and some similar products but before i go and buy them i wanted to get some advice on what is safest and what will most likely get gains. i know this stuff is rough on your body and that some other supplements should be taken while doing the cycle but i dont know what. get back to me and thanks for the help.

Welcome!

please post these questions in the supplements forum

I'll be the one to say it here: I would not recommend taking steroids until you are at least 21+ (Phera is a steroid). You could prematurely close your growth plates, among other things.

If you want a project so that way you feel like you are "doing something" to help yourself bulk, research different diets, learn about the various systems in the body, and formulate a diet for yourself. Diet is the most important part of the equation.

I don't think you will find anyone here to disagree that given the fact that you are just starting out, hormonal products like Phera-Mass are not warranted. Get your diet in check and get to the gym on a regular basis and you should grow just fine, at least for the next few years.

This is why God (aka Par) has provided you with a search button.

However, you need to go to IronAddicts.com and read every sticky. This forum might be a couple years ahead of you at this point.

Best advice-Read, eat, lift, sleep repeat.

What he said.

If you do choose to use steroidial compounds,I suggest using Sesathin and a high quality milk thistle supplement for liver protection.

i assumed i may be too young to be taking steroids. if i decided to do a 30 day cycle and just went low on the dosage would that be a better idea?
right now i have a protein shake/weight gainer(620 cal, 56g protein, tons of vitamins) but i have a really bad diet otherwise. i'm in college and between school and work i'm finding it hard to eat enough. but schools out next week and that is when i planned to start some sort of cycle. i will be able to keep a strict diet and workout.

also, when i was 16-17 i worked out for 5-6 months and got discouraged after no gains. i lived with my parents then so i had a decent diet and my dad was working me out and enjoyed to see me in pain, so the workouts weren't slack. just no growth.

if you were my age and adamant about bulking what would be the best "stack" (i guess thats what its called) for me to take? from pre-cycle to post-cycle and from then on. at least the names of the supplements and (light)dosage from week to week. im reading every damn sticky i see but like i said im short on time, so please, try to dumb it down as much as possible for me.

depending on how the cycle goes ill probably only bulk once a year at the most. but i will talk to my doctor and get his advice before i start anything.

thanks in advance. i really appreciate the help.

has anyone used Havoc by RPN? i read some guys log on a different forum and supposedly he gained 25 pounds on 4 week cycle with no sides. maybe a fluke case but made me raise an eyebrow.

I really don't think you are going to see much support from anyone here. I agree with everyone else, start by focusing on nutrition and exercise. If you are just starting you will make some pretty great gains from that alone..and food.

Hi Mike. Not to be a cynic, but I agree with what everyone else has said here. I graduated from college not all that long ago, and while I was in school I was convinced that I was a hardgainer...I wasn't making progress in the gym, thought I was doing everything right, etc. etc. I convinced myself, as it seems you are doing, that I needed something more. At the time, it was a product called 1-TU. Another prohormone put out by Nutrex which certainly packed on some size, but it wasn't the answer. I quickly found out after graduating that as soon as my life calmed down, I quit going out and partying 4-5x a week & eating like shit, and really got strict with my diet, that my gains were able to surpass that of anything I could get with a PH.

I know it is easy to want to take the shortcut, especially when things don't seem to be going as quickly as you'd like them to be, but I assure you if you read up on here and follow some basic info that your natural hormone levels will get you where you want to be this summer....as long as you are willing to put in the hard work and dedication that are going to be required for ANY sort of change, whether it involves PHs or not.

For what it's worth, given the choice to do it again I would never have taken the 1-TU, or any other PH for that matter.

thanks for the advice. i just want to see a gain. ive been the same build since grade school and i just want to get enough gain that when i look in the mirror i notice a change. id love too get my diet in check but its too hard with school and work. i dont have the time to drive home and eat between classes and i dont have the money to eat on campus everyday(and fast food will just make me fat). i made the commitment to work out and i make sure i get it done if i have to do it at 2 in the morning. (i have a 24/7 gym in my apartment complex that's literally 25 feet from my front door... talk about convenience) but like you said...

"I quickly found out after graduating that as soon as my life calmed down, I quit going out and partying 4-5x a week & eating like shit, and really got strict with my diet, that my gains were able to surpass that of anything I could get with a PH."

i dont really want to wait until i graduate to see gains. im finishing up my freshman year of college and after my four years its off to graduate school for a few more. ha, i wish i had the time to party 4-5 times a week. what was your major, basket weaving? look, im wasting workouts if i cant eat right and get enough calories and protein each day.

i greatly appreciate your time and advice but ive made up my mind.
i was hesitant to ask questions on here because i knew what the answers would be. "eat better and work out more, you'll see gains"

if someone could just recommend a product that they know and trust that would be great. ill figure out the rest.

Cool. Dont listen. Diet isnt THAT important anyways, the roids will do it.

Get some methyl 1 test, stack it with CEL-M-drol, run high dose tylenol for liver support, and make sure you use some NO-explode for PCT to get your boys back hanging low.

And it is almost impossible to overtrain on juice. I work in 2aDays, full body stuff, and ATLEAST 2 hrs/day good. Take only sundays off, and treat yourself to some cocktails, as you will be earning it with those 2aDays.

+100.

cool. a funny guy.

cycle was planned for summer when i don't have school. aka: "have more spare time" or "not as busy". "Free", if i may.


lethaljd gives me this whole philosophical story about the one time he took PHs back in college and how he would never do it again. and hes got an in-depth log of his Havoc cycle 6 months ago. save me the bullshit and just give me a straight answer.

"the real gains come from hard work and a good diet,mike. i just take steroids for fun "

Yeah Mike, I took Havoc this summer. You don't think I factored that in to my recommendation? Did you happen to actually finish reading my log, read about the issues I had during and post-PCT? The issues I CONTINUE TO HAVE? Why do you think I waited 5 years before trying another PH? Havoc was the only one that caught my eye with it's mild sides profile. I'm 26 years old, do you want to possibly risk the same issues at 19 or 20? It wasn't a philosophical story, it was a true story. I've made many decisions in my life, some I'm happy about, some I regret, but all of them I learn from. I was in the exact same boat as you at one point and that's why I'm trying to help, but if you want to drop attitude...then get bent. We are all trying to help you here, but if you don't want to listen, then I suggest you take yourself over to the bodybuilding.com forums why your bros will certainly tell you exactly what PH's you need to get HUGE.

And Mike, you said it all in your response to my post...I don't have time...I can't, I won't.....until you are willing to put these EXCUSES aside and make time for what's important (why can't you pack your lunch, eat a bar, or have a shake?) you will never see the gains you desire. Go ahead and waste your money on PHs, your gains will be modest at best with a diet that isn't in check.

RE: Havoc - I didn't want to say anything specifically about Havoc because I think it is a good product for certain people, but it wasn't for me. Cons outweighed the Pros, IMO. I didn't want to appear to be speaking poorly about a forum supporter's product when I know it is a good product. My n=1 experience just isn't enough for me to write off this compound as a whole. Plus, I researched the shit out of it before I took it, and I STILL had issues....you are haphazardly getting ready to do a cycle this summer, which is why I would sincerely reco against it. But, best of luck.

No. You will still fuck with your hormone levels even at a low dose. You say you are in college, take a bio class on hormonal systems before you mess with this shit.


Well if you dont have a good diet, a steroid isnt going to help you much anyways. You know the people who gained 20+ lbs? They had perfect diets and excellent training programs. You need to make sure you have practice with sticking to a strict diet before you try to add anything fancy.


Save the sob story for someone that cares. Intense workouts arent the end all. If you really knew what you were doing, then you'd know that hardgainers make little progress when they overtrain. You really need to read this training article (Here), and the other articles on the forums. Don't be an idiot, learn as much as possible before trying shit.


I cant wait to see the look on his face...

what the hell is wrong with you? you don't put any effort into your diet..how hard is it to plan a few meals for the day while you are at class?? not very.

If you actually put some effort in (which you don't) you would see some positive results. And I don't consider doing some bench press and curls late at night when you would otherwise be watching TV effort.

When JD took Havoc he had his diet and training down pat..so don't compare yourself to someone who is dedicated.

Even real gear won't do much for you if you are not eating sufficient calories, esp. PRO. Without getting your diet in check, any money you spend on Havoc or Phera will be money wasted.

Eating well does not take more time than eating poorly, you just have to plan better.